The Patch 8 Animation Was Just Trolling The Astarion Fans I Swear. Deliberately Pronouncing His Name

Always let Astarion vandalize the Vlaakith portrait, as a treat. He deserves it.

I can't believe I feel like I need to say this, but Wyll's writer doesn't deserve as much hate as they've been getting.

They're not in charge of making literally every single creative decision for Wyll.

It was not just Wyll's writer who decided to rewrite Wyll from the Early Access Wyll Eltan into Wyll Ravengard.

It's not Wyll's writer who gave Wyll the standard Warlock outfit instead of a custom starting outfit like every other origin character gets.

It's not Wyll's writer who gave Wyll one of the standard hairstyles, instead of a custom one. And it's not Wyll's writer who made Wyll's hair with that very poorly done and inaccurate hair texture.

It's not Wyll's writer who decided to barely put Wyll in the art book.

It's not just Wyll's writer who decided he wasn't getting a sex scene like every other origin character gets.

It's not Wyll's writer who cut the Upper city, where (allegedly) a lot of Wyll's arc was supposed to happen, causing Wyll to (allegedly) be hastily heavily rewritten again.

Wyll was not written in a vacuum. A video game is not made by just one person calling the shots—these decisions would have been made by the creative team at large. As a whole Larian Studios did not put as much time/money/effort into Wyll as they put into the other Origin characters.

And look, I know this is purely conjecture, but if I were Wyll's writer and had an entire story planned and already largely written and ready to go (e.g. EA Wyll) only to be told that I needed go back and entirely rewrite that character, I would lose a lot of love for that character. If I were then told I needed to go back again, and hastily re-write that character's main Arc so it could fit into a different area of the story, I'd be fucking livid (e.g. cutting the Upper City). This doesn't excuse Wyll's writer, but it does explain.

All I'm saying is, if you're going to blame Wyll's writer, blame them for the thing they actually had control over: Wyll's writing!

And guys, c'mon, at least act better than crabs in a bucket. Stop saying that Character X's content should be cut because it's unfair that Wyll got so little. Stop attacking fans of other characters. Dragging other people down isn't going to help any of us get out of this bucket.

I completely agree with a lot of this, and thank you for bringing up some great points.

I agree that having meta knowledge of his character does change the experience, and as someone who is very into roleplaying in this game, I absolutely agree that having him tell the player about this specific trauma in act 2 could be a shock. On my first (blind) playthrough I just personally felt like something was off from early on in the way he spoke about sex, especially in the scene in the forest beforehand, as well as all the over-the-top hedonistic comments he makes so often. Even when I had no idea about his past, it felt like he was putting on a performance rather than sincerely wanting intimacy, and that's a big part of why I didn't want to go through with the sex on my first playthrough; something just felt wrong about it from how he was acting even though I didn't know why. (this was just how I experienced things). I only had the meta knowledge from a non-spoiler guide that this was the only way to initiate his romance.

I do love his story as it plays out in the game with the sex scene happening in act 1, and I do understand why people think that's the best way to tell his story. I just was trying to say that the integrity of his arc and the portrayal of his specific trauma responses are able to be conveyed just as strongly without the sex actually happening. It's just different. I DO love the fact that the way Astarion sets the boundary about not wanting to have sex for a while is SO important in the context of having slept together before. He's saying "I consented to this in the past, but now I don't" and that's *such* an important example of healthy communication and boundary-drawing that I LOVE that was portrayed in this game.

The whole unwarranted guilt over "not realizing sooner" is also such an important representation of reality as well and I love that you acknowledged it. Again, I just think that this feeling wouldn't be exclusive to having slept with him.

Also I totally agree about the blood drinking thing. Given how significant and intimate an act it would be in the context of their relationship, I wish there was a scene where we could tell him that we're okay with him drinking our blood in a completely non-sexual way.

TLDR: I agree with and very much appreciate this response, I just think that there are multiple ways his story can be told that are just as true to the character. Also that I just found it odd that this game goes to such lengths to prioritize the player's choices and freedom, but this in particular feels very rigid when it doesn't need to be. Anyway this is all just my opinions, and I just like talking about this character!

My one major issue within Astarion's romance storyline (spoilers)

TLDR: player shouldn't have to sleep with him in act one to initiate the romance.

(also please correct me if I'm wrong about this being the way the romance triggers. All the information I found said that the act 1 intimacy scene is necessary)

First of all, this just locks you out of romancing him unless you’re a very particular kind of person. On my playthrough, my character is not at all the type to sleep with him casually, but I went through with it because I very badly wanted to see his romance storyline. 

So let’s examine what leads up to the scene. Astarion, upon meeting the player, recognizes power in them and thus someone who can help protect him. He comes up with his “nice, simple plan” to seduce the player in order to get them to trust and care for him. This makes complete sense for his character, as he sees his main and perhaps only source of value being what he can offer physically. It’s what he knows how to do, and so in this crisis situation, of course it’s what he defaults to. The fact that he propositions the player is not what I have a problem with. It’s the fact that they have to say yes in order to further the romance, or else they’re locked out of it. 

On a practical level, I can understand what the thought process behind this might have been. Having a character proposition the player, being turned down, and then coming onto them again in the future might make them come off as a pest, which can make a character majorly unlikable. However I would argue this can be worked around because it is made very clear that the first encounter with him is meant to be a purely casual intimacy. Having a confession scene later where he proposes something more sincere would feel completely different, offering something new rather than not taking no for an answer. 

But the game forces you to accept his offer if you want to further the romance. This leaves the player in an uncomfortable position no matter what. There are two intimacy scenes possible in act one, the first being his high approval scene that can trigger whenever, where he makes the offer and the player can choose. Skipping this one does not lock you out of the romance IF you do sleep with him at the Teifling party afterward (if I’m not mistaken). The Tiefling party version of the scene is much much better if you care about him as a person, in my opinion, because he keeps the fact that he sees it as a transaction to himself. In the high approval scene, he outright says, albeit flirtatiously, that this is a reward for letting him drink your blood. Him presenting the encounter that way feels very icky if you say yes. So while it’s very in-character and a very honest and raw portrayal of how his trauma has affected him, it leaves the player in a bad position. 

Now, this plot point is crucial to his overall story, yes. He needs to initiate this kind of pandering to the player character, trying to seduce them and get their trust and loyalty. My argument is that this can be done *without* the sex scene. If I were to rewrite this scene, I would have it that he invites the character to the woods after the party in a more ambiguous way unless you yourself bring up the topic of sex. Then, when you’re both there having your private conversation, you can choose to decline his advances. He could become puzzled and maybe a little annoyed and say something like “why did you come here, then?”. The player could then have the option to respond with “I wanted to get to know you better” or something. This could be a really sweet and heartbreaking moment to look back on after you learn more about him. Give him a genuine moment of confusion in this scene, because it challenges what he thought about himself and other people; someone doesn't want him just for his body, and they also want to get to know him as a person. This would probably be a confusing and difficult feeling for him. He’d mask it quickly, of course, but still. Then, there could be a nice moment between them where they just have a cute conversation about anything. Maybe they could even just make this scene into a slightly different version of his scars scene the morning after. He showed up shirtless after all, so the player could go on to ask him about that and it could be a wholesome bonding moment. This would allow the player to show interest in him without it being explicitly sexual, but also not locking you out of the romance route with him. Also it’s asexual friendly. On a narrative and emotional level, this serves basically the exact same purpose as the sex scene(s), with the exception of the regret and moral greyness, which I think the player should be able to avoid anyway if they choose. Especially upon replays, this forces the player to engage in something they know is not an enjoyable experience for him, in order to trigger his romance storyline, which I think is kind of wrong. 

Interesting point here, though: If you’re playing as origin Karlach, then you can't sleep with him at first without, you know, burning him to a crisp. The romance plays out the same otherwise, PROVING MY POINT that it’s not necessary. In this version of events, they just “talk and fall asleep”. This would be exactly what I wanted. I just really wish this were an option in any other case.

I'm too demisexual for this.

To be fair, you have to have an extremely high level of mental illness to understand Disco Elysium

More artists should really draw their favorite ships in the Disco Elysium jackets. It's character analysis to say which character would wear which jacket.

‘I want to watch a show where characters just happen to be queer and their queerness isn’t the focus of the story.’ -you should watch the wheel of time

‘I wish there was more media that normalized polyamory’ -you should watch the wheel of time

‘I wish there were more focus on women and characters of color in fantasy and sci fi and genre fiction’ -you should watch the wheel of time

‘I want more shows that put a lot of emphasis on platonic relationships and not just romances’ -you should watch the wheel of time

‘I wish there were more fantasy shows that didn’t objectify sexual violence against women’ -you should watch the wheel of time

‘I wish television would cast more middle aged and older women in dynamic and interesting roles’ -YOU SHOULD WATCH THE WHEEL OF TIME

I cannot take Gortash seriously for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that he has anime hair

My Tav

I'm hoping to eventually post some snippets / maybe a completed fic on here once I get something presentable, and I'm trying to motivate myself rather than get caught up in anxiety. So I thought I may as well informally introduce my Tav. She's very much still a work in progress, but I'm trying not to put too much pressure on myself to have her extensively fleshed-out when I only really just started actually writing her story. I made up a lot about her as I played the game, but now I'm taking that raw material and expanding upon it. Anyway, this is River:

Name: River*

Gender: She identifies as a woman and goes by she/her, but her gender isn't really crucial to her sense of identity.

Race: Half-elf

Age: Half-elf equivalent of mid-twenties

Class: Paladin (Oath of the Ancients)

Appearance: I imagine her looking a little different than her in-game version, mainly in body type and hair length, as well as some facial differences. She's about 5' 8" (Astarion won't let her forget that she's nearly a whole inch shorter than him), but not as lean and obviously muscular as the type 3 body option in-game. She's strong, but isn't as slim as the other female characters. The vanilla game doesn't have the option, but I imagine her with long wavy hair that she usually wears braided for combat and down when at rest. She has numerous scars.

Personality: She's very introverted and quiet, preferring to observe and listen than be any sort of center of attention. She's extremely good at reading and understanding others, but is rarely understood herself. She is giving to a fault, and needs to learn not to be the "therapist friend" all the time. Being high-masking autistic, she comes across as weird or just quiet to most people who don't know her. She's defined by her selflessness, empathy, and passion, though she struggles to express the latter openly. Despite her social struggles, she will stand firm when defending someone and upholding her oaths. She hates it when people (Astarion) call her a self-sacrificial paladin stereotype, because it's true.

Overview:

She is pretty similar to Wyll in a lot of ways, in that she wears the mask of the protector, always putting everyone else first, driven by compassion. While she becomes extremely attached to her companions very quickly, she struggles greatly to form the genuine, profound connection she desires. She doesn't like to talk about her past because though she craves emotional intimacy like a drug, it also terrifies her.

She's a paladin, sworn to the Oath of the Ancients, because she feels fundamentally like an outsider. In her mind, if she can't belong among people, at least she can protect and care for them from afar. Chronic self-isolation has led her to feeling extremely off-balance once this group of tadpole-infested weirdos decides that she's the person to follow around the wilds of Faerun looking for a cure. She has never been accepted as a leader of any kind before, so she's uncertain, but finds drive in the fact that people are putting their faith in her. She would give anything to not let them down.

River finds Astarion intriguing from the beginning, and immediately wants to get through to him. She can see the mask he wears, even when others insist on taking him at face value. She doesn't support his more sadistic tendencies, but she sees the good in him from early on, and can tell there's much more to his story. Him being a vampire isn't that big of a deal to her; she is practical, and has a good sense of his character by then. She feels understanding and care for him more than anything else, so she puts her trust in him. (Interesting, considering her oaths, as the forces of nature aren't too keen on undead... Foreshadowing?) She ends up falling for Astarion in act 2 because of how he's finally opening up a bit, and she can see the soft, bright, passionate, incredibly strong man he is under the facade. After a whole lot of patience and consistent support, of course. Astarion shows time and time again that he seems to accept and understand River in a way nobody else, even their other companions, ever has. They're the one person in each other's lives who has never judged the other. Well, Astarion judges and openly mocks her plenty in the beginning for her bleeding heart, but never for the things she feels that deep-rooted shame over, like her autistic traits.

They're both learning together what it means to form connection after a lifetime of disconnect and loneliness, in a world that does not accept either of them without conditions. They may look like opposites to those who don't realize that their asymmetry is simply reflection. They challenge each other in the best ways, and deep down, they know a lot of the same pain. It sounds cheesy, but I think they balance each other out in a way that pushes them both to be better, braver people.

I'm currently working on a fic that I think will consist of several chapters occurring at important and illustrative points in both the game's narrative and their relationship. River has a lot of growth across the story in terms of self-acceptance, confronting her relationship with her Oaths, connecting, and reclaiming her identity. I love writing her and Astarion in any given situation, not to mention her relationships with the other companions. She's far from my best-written or most unique original character, but I care about her and her story. I'm trying to take my time and not put pressure or judgement on myself, and to just have fun with it. I'm also on the verge of committing to a post-game fic about Astarion and River, which I have SO many ideas for, involving tons of fluff, healing, Astarion's bucket list of "Things I Want To Do Now That I'm Not Slave To An Evil Vampire Lord", and plenty of interesting vampiric chaos in the Underdark. That story will be a bigger commitment, but I feel so inspired to write it. Something about writing her and Astarion is just so comforting to me.

While this character is very much like me in a lot of ways, she's also different in crucial ones, and I think I'm learning a lot by writing her.

(Now, I'm on my way to starting a Dark Urge playthrough, and I have some Ideas of how River could fit perfectly in that role, from what I know about the resist Dark Urge storyline. The angst and metaphors would be dialed up to 100. With some backstory changes, it could work really well, I think. So don't be surprised if she potentially becomes a Dark Urge AU version of herself in the future haha. Writing fanfic has been so freeing because I can just DO that if i want to. My character can be fluid. There are no rules. Hells yeah.)

*(I came up with her name before I even got the game, and so her name being in the main theme song makes it seem cheesy but I don't care lol)

It's scary to be transgender in the world right now but if you're transgender I love you and we have to stick together and keep fighting and keep living and keep loving

Back to the issue of Astarion's charisma after doing his personal quest:

One thing that caught my attention is the double standards the inhabitants of Cazador's Mansion display. As soon as the party arrives there, we learn of the cultist pseudo-hierarchy that seemed to be at play. Spawns other than the chosen seven call Astarion Master. But also, there's Master-Master who is not named because it's obvious in the context, and because he elicits such dread. But as soon as Astarion speaks against Cazador, people call him blasphemous or weak or ignorant.

Then we need to get to the kennel master, and Astarion confronts him about the endured torture. The skeleton says some interesting things:

Then, you go into battle with Cazador. The game gives you an option to detach Astarion from the party, and then Cazador pouts that Astarion won't even see him, and the fight is a little easier because he can't drag Astarion into the ritual circle. But according to the "happy path" that is intended as default (as we always see Astarion half-naked just like the other six spawns in the cutscene after the battle), Astarion confronts Cazador, and Cazador berates him callously before assuming direct control.

Both Godey and Cazador infantilize Astarion, portraying him as a brat, "always difficult" and petulant. Cazador weaponizes the fact that he was turned as a very young person, denying Astarion the right to mature, whatever Cazador might consider maturation by vampire standards.

This paints a picture where Astarion was cheeky in his servitude after all, which might be considered bravely stupid, but it's still telling of a certain resilience on his part being constantly tested. He "sang sweetly" to his torturer because, apparently, he kept his voice. And something about Cazador trying to mock that pattern, Astarion being loud and chatty and driven to win people over, gets an abrupt reaction that makes me think Astarion has been baited and triggered in this exact way many times before. This trait was possibly the thing that set him apart from others and gave him his unique "purpose" as a spawn.

The narrative thus indicates that he has always been a hilariously annoying chatterbox, but being called out for it by Cazador seems to wound him deeper than other quips. So here, the narrative seems to win over game mechanics in terms of telling us how good Astarion is at influencing people.

So perhaps this is a remnant of the person Astarion was before the turning, part of the reason he was picked to become Cazador's victim. Perhaps that kind of coping through humor, sarcasm and people pleasing was the core of his youthful self-image, even.

(I think citing the alleged inevitable corruption of the character after being turned into a spawn would be counterproductive at this point, and it's more plausible to consider any corruption to be a result of living in an an abusive structure).

When searching Cazador's dungeon we find proof of his keen interest in Sarevok and in the contemporary politics of Baldur's Gate. In one of the writings, he expressed concern about Gortash's Steel Watchers harming his spawns. Allegedly, he was supposed to play a greater role in the interplay between the city's factions. A question arises then, why would he tell Astarion that he amounted to nothing? Is it another offense to Astarion dying before he could be considered accomplished by social standards, or is it something else?

Could Astarion really have already been entangled with Cazador in his career as a magistrate, after all?

(I need content where we can explore his lifetime so bad, even if it means breaking into an empty ruin and finding a portrait, a handkerchief, a sheet of cheesy poems, anything)