What Are Your Thoughts On Bonnie Cheating To Become The Homecoming Queen And The Fact That She Tried

Yeah, Kim feels unrelatable. Her life is too perfect, she's too naturally talented at everything, her parents are too permissive, etc. Kim's life is not relatable. At all. Sure, she's a great fantasy, but when you're older, you want relatability more than fantastically perfect.

At some point, it just stops being fun to watch someone who's life is unattainably perfect.

I actually left out the pre-school Halloween costume because, due to his age at the time, I wasn't sure if that would count as a disregard for gender norms.

Also, in the episode "Grudge Match" his rules were that Zita was out of his league and he shouldn't even try asking her out because of it. Less to do with gender norms and stereotypes, and more to do with his perception of himself.

(He's also more surprised that Vivian's boyfriend isn't as good looking as her and that he's a robot than he is that she's a scientist.)

Kim did call his rules ridiculous, but the early part of the episode makes it clear that, despite this, Kim actually does believe Ron doesn't stand a chance with Zita.

Ron: What kind of chance do I have a girl like that anyway? Kim: Honest opinion or best-friend fudge? Monique: Fudge it, girl! Kim: It doesn't hurt to ask.

And it's a bit offensive, because they knew nothing about Zita at the time, so the only reason to think Ron doesn't stand a chance is because she just has a low opinion of Ron in general.

(I'm not going to get into it here, I have several other posts about it.)

But thanks for your commentary, because I really do appreciate it.

I believe that Ron Stoppable is neurodivergent. Many of his traits line up with being neurodivergent.

Disregard for Gender Norms

In "Mind Games" Ron mentions liking the skirt on Kim's cheer uniform.

In "Attack of the Killer Bebes" he got a movie makeup kit as a birthday present.

In "Two to Tutor" he is revealed to love baking and is mentioned as being interested in interpretive dance.

He becomes a fan of the Oh Boyz in "Oh Boyz".

He becomes a fan of "Kim Style" in "Kimitation Nation".

He is implied to be interested in Britina dolls in "Queen Bebe".

These are all things typically regarded as feminine interests, but when Ron has his crisis about being a man in "Ron the Man", none of that stuff is what he's concerned about. He's not afraid any of that stuff makes him less of a man, and he feels no shame about them (most of the time).

Lack of Concern for Popularity

There are several times where Ron is shown to not care about popularity, though there are also several times where Ron is shown to care a great deal about how others perceive him.

Obsessive Tendencies

In "October 31st" Ron is shown to still be interested in going trick-or-treating, despite the fact that most people would have outgrown this hobby by this point.

In "Grande Size Me" Ron becomes obsessed with proving Barkin wrong about the food pyramid, and begins behaving in a defensive manner over it.

(Of course, Ron invented the Naco, which was the specific item Barkin was criticizing, so it's a bit understandable.)

In "Dimension Twist" Ron spends three days straight watching cable television.

Ron has a tendency to become obsessed with his interests, and defensive if someone doesn't like them.

Hobbies and Interests

In "Monkey Fist Strikes" Ron is revealed to be interested in video games, and this is mentioned again in "Steal Wheels".

In "Larry's Birthday" it's revealed that Ron has regular meetups with Larry and Larry's friends.

In "Queen Bebe" Ron is implied to have an interest in Britina dolls.

Ron is a fan of the Oh Boyz in "Oh Boyz", even when they're so unpopular no one goes to their concerts. In addition to this, he doesn't even realize they're no longer popular.

Ron may not having been looking for a naked mole rat specifically, but he does consider them to be cool pets.

In "Two to Tutor" there is a brief mention of Ron having an interest in interpretive dancing.

He's still interested in trick-or-treating in "October 31st".

Many of Ron's interests are things typically regarded as "uncool" or "childish", things his peers are usually not interested in.

Social Life and Anxiety

Ron is frequently shown to lack social skills - bad at picking up intonation, doesn't have many friends, has a hard time dating, and is generally believed to be unpopular.

There's also Ron's tendency to panic, and his occasional bouts of paranoia.

(Though his belief that Barkin is targeting him specifically was apparently correct.)

In fact, Ron's anxiety reached a breaking point when, in "Odds Man In", he experienced such bad anxiety, he locked himself in some kind of panic room.

(Also, where was this? When did he have it built?)

Ron is also concerned about being replaced as Kim's best friend or sidekick, as shown in "Pain King vs Cleopatra", or boyfriend, as shown in "Ill-Suited".

So Ron displays many traits associated with neurodivergent teenagers.

And these also happen to be the traits that the show used to write him as a "loser".

And that's one of the reasons I dislike so much of the show's humor being at Ron's expense - because it often relies on poking fun at Ron not behaving in a neurotypical way.

And as someone who is not neurotypical, seeing the character that's the most like me being the "buffoon" character, the "inept sidekick" character, the one who is incompetent and incapable, well...it kind of hurts.

Because it kind of feels like they're saying what I and many other neurodivergent people have heard our whole lives - that you can't do anything, and you look foolish for trying.

Look, I realize this wasn't intentional. But, even unintentionally, Ron is very heavily neurodivergent-coded, and that happens too often in media - humor that relies on someone having neurodivergent traits and making fun of them for it.

And we've all grown past that.

Unstoppables AU Valentine's

No one asked, but here's what everyone in my AU is doing for Valentine's Day.

Ron and Bonnie are having a quiet night in. Ron made food, Bonnie picked up some movies and arranged for someone to watch Rufus and Debutante.

Monique and Tara are going out for dinner.

Wade and Olivia are going to a movie.

Yori explains to Will that, in Japan, Valentine's Day is for girls to confess to their crush, and if the feelings are reciprocated, they get them a gift a month later on White Day. Will says she can take him out then, and he'll take her out a month later.

Felix and Zita are gaming. They both put surprises in the game for the other one to find.

Brick, Josh, and Justine are participating in a trivia night at a local pub.

Gil, Amelia, Larry, Joss, Patti, and Artie are having a "singles party" at Larry and Joss's apartment. Patti's only there because her parents wanted the house to themselves for the night, and Artie's only there because his dad had a date.

Drakken made a nice dinner and dessert for Shego. Her surprise for him is for later in the evening.

The only way Jack was able to take Betty on a date for Valentine's Day was to lead her on a chase that ends in a date.

I thought he we would see more of this on So the Drama, but again the movie focused more on Ron than on Kim

Now, I’m a huge KimRon shipper, I’ve made whole analysis, gifsets and even the occasional fanart. I love that paring.

But I hate how Kim and Ron got together in the movie, the Kim from so the drama seemed like the one from Season one, when the Kim from season 2 and 3 was very clearly in love with him the one of the movie….. how do I say this!

Alright there are still little scenes like the one where Kim complains about not wanting to go with a friend-friend to the Prom, how a “stinky boyfriend” would be nice for a change while she keeps looking at Ron.

There’s the scenes where Kim looks lovingly to couples passing by, when Ron approaches her and tells him he knows the reason she is looks down lately, Kim whole mood changed and she looks up, hopefully? Expectantly? The way I see it Kim very clearly was expecting him to ask her to the dance right there, but we all know that’s not what happened. Not yet.

But then we also get scenes where Kim seemed completely against the idea or even embarrassed about the possibility of going up with him to the Prom. 2_5

Yeah, the movie doesn't really hold up when you look at it again 20 years later. But few things do, so it's not *entirely* their fault.

But we get a lot of Ron pining over Kim and only the barest hint that Kim might also be pining over Ron.

And honestly, even before the movie, Kim had moments of being embarrassed by Ron.

I have many posts that highlight the ways Kim's treated Ron unfairly throughout the show, but I'm going to assume you've read them already.

They felt so odd and even out of character for Kim at that point, everything about the movie felt very season one-isn, Kim’s character felt off and even a little disrespectful:

Kim: “Ron is not boyfriend material, he is Ron ”

Bonnie: “you could end up with the president of the Chess club or worse” (as Ron enters the scene)

There are so many scenes where Ron is able to ponder about his feelings about Kim, there are many scenes where he does something that shows he loves her and in general seems to prioritize her happiness.

( little scenes like when he buys her a jacket, every time he is supportive and tells her she can do anything, that she is beautiful, when she gives her the credit for saving the day in the Ron factor episode, we have whole scenes where Ron’s character evaluated the way he feels about her and how important she is to him.)

I think is amazing how the cartoon portrays Ron as an introspective, open and emotionally available person (very rare in a boy character during that time, is amazing and part of the whole subversion of tropes the show had going on).

This is part of the reason what made me love Ron’s character and Kim and Ron’s relationship

But we almost didn’t get any of that with Kim, we barely ever saw how she felt about anything, she was never allowed to be as open and vulnerable about her feelings as Ron was. 3_5

Truthfully, even today, it can be hard to find a teenage guy character who is so open about his feelings.

So I do love that about Ron.

And I hate that Kim was never allowed that same vulnerability. She was only shown to have fears or insecurities a few times; fighting the Lorwardians in "Graduation", a newly discovered fear of giant bugs in "Roachie", and anything involving Josh Mankey.

And, even though she could experience fear and insecurities, it never made her sympathetic towards any of Ron's.

There where shows back then where the teen male protagonist was allowed to be emotional and vulnerable, so why isn't a teen female protagonist allowed the same?

I wasn't even aware they were trying to make it seem like Marinette struggles to make friends.

Like, she's so popular and loved that struggling to make friends is the one problem Marinette doesn't have.

Sure, they tell us she had this problem in "Origins" but it's not like they actually show Marinette struggling to make friends. People just love Marinette instantly.

She's a bit quirky, and nerdy, and prone to misunderstandings, but none of those have made it hard for Marinette to make friends.

So saying she struggles with that is just disingenuous.

As someone who ACTUALLY struggled to make friends in HS its insulting when they say Marinette does so.

People who "struggle to make friends" dont get elected class president

People who "struggle to make friends" dont have pajama parties with their girlfriends ocasionally

People who "struggle to make friends" arent friends with famous comedians and international rockstars

People who "struggle to make friends" dont date supermodels. Or at all.

Being "quirky" or "nerdy" or "prone to misunderstandings " is not the same thing of being a weird outcast, and for sure doesnt make you unpopular.

Bonnie only dated Ron at those times so she could benefit from his wealth and dumped him as soon as he was robbed. Also Bonnie was on the rebound and only flirted with Ron so that she could get back at Kim.

I never said her reasons for dating him had to do with liking him, I just said she was supportive.

Ron's upset that someone got him adult lettuce instead of baby lettuce? Clearly, they need to do their job better.

(Also, there is a difference; baby lettuce has more nutrients. So if someone had an exotic rodent to feed, the difference would be important.)

Ron wants to buy impractically large jewelry? No problem, it's his money, after all.

Calls himself "The Ron"? Okay, takes an adjustment, but no problem.

Ron wants to go to the re-opening of J. P. Bearymore's? No big deal, it makes him happy.

Though her reasons for dating him weren't actually finding him attractive, she chose not to criticize and judge him the times they were dating.

Also, her flirting with Ron, shockingly, had nothing to do with getting back at Kim. It was entirely because she was on the rebound and Ron happened to win Homecoming King. Honestly, she probably would've done that no matter who won, but it wouldn't have been dramatic if it had been anyone other than Ron.

What are your thoughts on the Tweebs?

Well, the original pitch bible had them as sociopathic geniuses...

Which is kind of a horrible way to describe ten-year-olds. End of.

Jim and Tim are energetic, hyperactive, rambunctious geniuses with a tendency towards taking apart household appliances to build things.

They don't respect Kim's boundaries and work hard to embarrass her.

James and Ann don't seem to be big on disciplining their kids or regulating their behaviors.

And Kim is constantly commenting on how she wanted a sister, thinks of them as freaks, and doesn't think they're human.

Frankly, I wouldn't blame them for not wanting to be nice to her after dealing with that for a lifetime.

Especially after they went through the trouble of helping her on a mission and she used mind-control chips on them afterwards.

The same ones they had freed her from.

The same ones she said were unethical to just make.

I know that when my older sibling spent my entire life telling me how much she never wanted me, I wasn't exactly inclined to be nice to her either.

(We're doing better now, but it took an acknowledgement and an apology on her part before I was even willing to try. I think it'd be nice if Kim did this, too.)

But even though they had nearly helped embarrass Kim out of existence in "Blush", it's clear that they hadn't known what was going to happen, and thus hadn't intended to cause that much harm to Kim.

So it doesn't seem like Jim and Tim are as "sociopathic" as the creators had originally intended for them to be.

TLDR: They aren't really different from how any other ten-year-old boys would be if they were geniuses, had access to advanced technology, had parents who don't discipline or regulate them, and had an older sister constantly talking about how much she hates them.

So I can't really blame them for how they turned out.

Would you?

And it could've set up some interesting plots, too.

Nobody wants Chat Noir to start working with Hawk Moth, but literally not having a choice leads to opening the door for a lot of questions about what it means to be human, be a person, and how far he'd be willing to go to secure his freedom. Probably not too far, but it'd still be a great plot.

Morality crisis after learning that Felix, Kagami, and Adrien are Sentimonsters and Ladybug and Chat Noir have destroyed a bunch of them? That'd be good too!

There was so much potential that they decided not to do anything with.

Sentimonsters Vs Tropes

It's no secret that I hate the fact that Adrien is a sentimonster, but I figured I'd take a minute to clearly explain why it bothers me so much because I don't think that I've done that and I should. There's obviously the issue that he will never have true free will and that's deeply upsetting, but my dislike of this theory came long before canon made that issue clear, further fueling my hatred. My baseline dislike is routed in the heart of the theory and the tropes it's brushing up against.

There are two standard tropes that you usually see with something like the sentiplot. The first trope is the humanization of the outsider and the second is the questioning of what it means to be a valid living creature. Let's quickly define both of these.

Humanization of the Outsider

This trope takes some external group and presents them as bad. They are the irredeemable enemy who must be stopped at all costs, the lesser race who are fit to be nothing more than slaves, or some other inherent disparity that's just a base part of this world. Whatever the setup, the story then introduces a member of this external group as a key character in the story and somehow creates a connection between that character and the "good" guys. Through that connection, we come to learn that this individual is, in fact, not inherently lesser or bad or what-have-you. They are just as valid as the "good" guys. From there, we are forced to reassess our assumptions about every member of the external group. If this one individual isn't what we thought, then are any of them? For a well-known example of this, think Toothless from How to Train Your Dragon.

The point of this trope is to make people question the way they view others. To suggest that maybe you're viewing a situation through biased eyes. Is any group inherently bad/lesser or do you just not know the whole story? What have you been taught and why?

What Makes You Worthy of Life?

This trope is basically the inversion of the humanization trope. Instead of focusing on how we view others, it focuses on how we view ourselves. It says that you're valid no matter where you come from or who your parents are. That you are not defined by others or arbitrary catagories. For a well-known example of this, think of that Mewtwo line that people love to quote:

“I see now that the circumstances of one's birth are irrelevant. It is what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are.” ― Pokemon, The First Movie: Mewtwo Strikes Back!

Combo Attack & Variations

Before we circle back to Miraculous, it's worth noting that these two tropes are often used in tandem. A non-human or outsider may question if they're valid and, though that struggle, teach others in-universe to question their prejudice. You can also have variations such as the non-human or outsider viewing themselves as totally valid without being part of a larger group, leading to the type of discussion that you'd expect in the humanization trope even thought, setup wise, it's more in line with the validity trope. Star Trek: The Next Generation has several episodes about this one, mostly focused around the character Data. Heck, Stark Trek hits every one of these tropes at one point or another because they're incredibly standard Sci-Fi tropes. A large amount of Sci-Fi is all about philosophical questions! This brings us back to Miraculous.

Dunking on Miraculous

When you use a standard setup like the introduction of a non-human who is supposed to be seen as human, you are joining a vast canon of literature that discusses this topic, adding your voice to thousands of others, making your statement on humanity and personal worth. Or, at least, that's what I expect to see when you introduce this type of setup. The problem with Miraculous is that it doesn't add to those conversations. There is no discussion of Adrien's worth or the worth of any other sentimonster. If anything, Miraculous has so far spat in the face of these tropes. To show you what I mean, let's look at what canon has given us from two directions.

Direction One: What makes a sentimonster valid?

Their creator. Adrien was made to live like a human and so we must treat him as one. If a sentimonster wasn't made to be equal to humans? Then no worries, go ahead and destroy them! They don't matter because their creator - aka their parent - decided that they're worthless. The circumstances of their birth define their fundamental right to exist.

Direction Two: What did finding out about their sentistatus do to Felix and Kagami's perception of their own self worth? Does finding out a sentikids' sentiness status change how others see them?

Canon seems to have no interest in even acknowledging that someone might ask these questions. Felix has known what he is for years, but doesn't seem to have any hangups about it. He wants to ensure his freedom, but that's not unique to sentimonsters or saying something about his self worth. Once he has his ring and the peacock, his lack of true free will and the whole remote-self-destruct issue don't seem to bother him. You could replace his status with any sort of magical control and get the same plot because the plot is about acquiring macguffins and nothing else.

Even Colt's abuse is only used to make Felix a sad little uwu who can't be held accountable for anything and not as a setup to Felix questioning his worth. We see Felix called "monster," but Felix has not been shown to have taken that insult to heart. He doesn't view himself as a monster. We don't even learn about the monster insult until Felix is "good." The most I can say is that there is a vague sense that Felix probably views humans as lesser, but it's hard to be sure about that based on the actual text of the show even if the word of god is that Ladybug made Felix trust humans. So that's a bust on Felix addressing this issue even though he's the best character to do it. What about everyone else?

Kagami seems to learn the truth in the middle of season five and she's totally fine. Not really human? Not a problem! Her love life is far more worthy of attention. Make her a human who feels in love with a sentimonster and, once again, nothing changes.

Marinette is implied to learn the truth during Felix's play and has no reaction. The fact that she's Miraculous Ladybugged away sentimonsters and even tossed a few in the sun doesn't appear to even cross her mind. The only impact this has on her is that she now has more secrets to keep from Adrien. Her view of him, Kagami, and Felix has not changed.

We don't even get Nathalie or Gabriel reacting to the idea of destroying sentimonster! For fifteen years, the only sentimonsters they've dealt with are Adrien, Kagami, and Felix. They appear to see these three as real human children and yet they have no problem switching to using other sentimonsters as canon fodder. If anyone should have reacted strongly to the death of sentibug, it's Gabriel because Nathalie is wielding the power to poof away his son and she just showed a total lack of regard for what is supposedly a fourth valid sentimonster, but we get nothing.

Given all these tepid non-reactions, I guess that the audience is not supposed to care about the fact that Adrien was the only character with no hopes or dreams in Wishmaker. That meant nothing about his worth or psychology! It was just a bit of fun foreshadowing! He's a real boy because his mommy and the writers said so. No greater discussion is needed.

What's the show's actual message then?

Now, do I think that Miraculous was trying to give us baby's first eugenics lesson? No. Absolutely not! This is, at best, incredibly clumsy writing that is trying and failing to tell a moral that I truly can't figure out. At worst, the sentiplot shows us that the writers have a fundamental lack of curiosity. A complete disinterest in using their massive platform to say something of value. They are here to shock audiences with poorly setup twists and nothing else. Whichever path you pick, it's not a good look.

I truly love these tropes and grew up consuming media that played with them. They have positively shaped how I view the world. That's why I find Miraculous' handling of this topic so incredibly depressing and upsetting. The problem is not that Adrien is a sentimonster. It's that he was made into one - robbed of his freedom and humanity - for nothing more than shock value. It's that other, "lesser" sentimonsters are being treated as disposable by one of their own kind. It's that there is no greater lesson here or, if there is, then it's going to be told in a way that completely fails to connect with the audience due to the show's terrible pacing and inability to use the type of focus you need to tell a coherent arc.

These are the writers who had Adrien give the high road advice at the beginning of season three and then didn't revisit that issue until the end of season five without so much as a flashback to remind viewers what the heck he was talking about. Rare is the viewer who can follow that plot and I don't expect the sentiplot to be any better assuming that there even is going to be a plot. If there is, then I already hate it! I don't want Miraculous discussing hard topics with superfans and no one else. I want it having those discussions in a way that the intended audience can follow. If it can't do that, then it never should have tread on such morally complex ground.

I actually have a lot of opinions about Totally Spies, but I won't get into those right now.

I will say, I noticed that there aren't a lot of fandom spaces dedicated to discussing Mandy and her friends.

(Or, if there are, I haven't found them yet.)

So, if that's something you're interested in, I suggest checking this out.

M.i.G. is LIVE, PEOPLE!

There's an actual Facebook group called M.i.G. (Mandy is Great) that's accepting members. If you want to extoll the virtues of the real star of the show, join at the link below:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2596797444042145/?ref=share&mibextid=NSMWBT

Also, unlike the M.i.G. in the show, this one's open to all!

The only moment of the whole show where Kim looks distressful (almost about to cry) in the whole show is when she thinks Ron died in the Christmas episode.

when she tells Ron she loves her in Clean state and when she confesses to Ron she is scared too. Those are amazing emotional moments that strength Kim and Ron’s relationship, but again they are so few and far in-between.

Again, all of this was because Kim was never allowed to ponder about her feelings, or have flaws nor be vulnerable

And I think this is part of the reason why some people in the fandom (I’ve seen a few, even though I disagree with them I get where they are coming from) dislike Kim and tend to pair up Ron with almost any other character (Tara, Bonnie, Yori or sometimes even Shego ) instead of Kim.

Kim is almost a non-character in the fandom, even on Kigo stories (Once I tried giving Kigo a chance, but I disliked almost everything about it, finding about the age-gap didn’t help) Kim is a non-character only being there to act as a prop towards Shego.

In the majority of the stories (even in KimRon stories) Kim acts more like a self-insert or as a prop to either Ron or Shego. 4_5

Yeah, Kim actually having realistic, relatable emotions is so rare in the show, it makes it feel like she's not even a character in her own show.

This is probably why she often feels like a non-character in fanfiction - she was never given enough emotional depth in the show to use in fanfiction.

She definitely had flaws, but they were so rarely acknowledged, and even more rarely corrected.

The only person to regularly acknowledge Kim's flaws is Ron, but he's usually not taken seriously. So Kim never feels a need to try and improve herself.

I know I prefer to ship Ron with other people because Tara and Yori were nice to him when Kim wasn't, and Bonnie was unequivocally supportive when they were dating in "Ron Millionaire" and really nice and kind to him in "Homecoming Upset" when she was trying to date him. Tara and Yori treated Ron better than Kim did at times, and Bonnie definitely had the potential for that kind of relationship with Ron.

I don't ship Ron with Shego for the same reason I don't ship Kim with Shego - the age difference makes me uncomfortable. It's pedophilia, even if nothing happens until Ron or Kim is eighteen.