I Wasn't Even Aware They Were Trying To Make It Seem Like Marinette Struggles To Make Friends.

You have a lot of gripes about Kim as a character? What about Ron though? Do you think they handled his character better then the rest?

Oh, good question! Yes, and no.

No because Ron is portrayed as a loser and a freak, the butt of many jokes within the series.

And so many people, females included, find themselves relating to Ron more than Kim, so it's a little bit insulting that the character most like them was the "loser" of the show.

And yes, because Ron actually got more character development than Kim.

And, while Ron has been known to be selfish at times, it doesn't usually cause harm to others.

There was "Ill Suited" where he stole Kim's battle suit to join the football team, but he had no way of knowing he could be putting others in danger as he had no idea Dementor was after the suit or had a way to control it.

And Kim called him out for it.

Whenever Ron is behaving badly, neither Kim nor the narrative will hesitate to call him out on it.

Most often, Ron puts Kim's interests before his own. And he certainly treats Kim better than she treats him.

So, Ron is treated as a joke, and often puts Kim's needs ahead of his own. When he behaves badly, he is called out on it. And for this reason, I think he was handled both better and worse than Kim

I don't know how you can say that Ron outgrew his role as the forgettable sidekick while still claiming it's part of his character. Sure, Ron's probably not one to try hard, but acknowledgement of what he does for Kim would be nice.

(He's also been shown to be unhappy with being the forgettable sidekick, so it's not fair to act like he needs to keep being that.)

Do you think Ron outgrew his original role as the forgettable sidekick and comedic relief? If the answer is "Yes", at what point do you think that happened?

His chracter was treated that way mostly because he was the primary source for comedic relief, the show needs humor if Ron outgrew that role and his character was being held back by that, then in order to solve it, they needed to either introduce another character to fullfil that role, change the way the humour operated or find another way like tone down the humor and the gags or at least not make them at expense of the chracter.

How would you solve this?

Was Ron's character really unhappy with being just the sidekick? There were few instances where he sounded proud of having that role, I think it was people overlooking him and outright forgetting him which annoyed him and not that he was known as a sidekick.

I definitely say Ron outgrew his original role. As for when, hmm...

As early back as the first (chronological) episode, Ron was shown to have some skill at this.

I'd have to say by mid-season 2 it's just mean to keep up all the jokes at Ron's expense.

If one character is the primary source of comedy in a show, I do agree that needs to be changed. The change I'd make would be having humor rely on more than one character.

(Of course, I'd make it that way from the beginning.)

Yes, I do think, at times, Ron was unhappy being the sidekick.

There was "Bueno Nacho" where he was upset that Kim only wanted him to join her as a sidekick.

In "Sink or Swim" he asks if he'll be allowed to lead the next mission, which implies an interest.

There was "The Fearless Ferret" where Ron wanted to branch out on his own as a hero.

And at least one occasion where Ron asks Kim why she never has Wade make gadgets for him.

So it certainly seems like there are times where Ron wanted to be treated more like a partner than a sidekick.

And, honestly, I think he deserves it.

Megamind 2 Concept

So, it's a few years after the end of the first movie. Megamind is starting to feel the same burnout Metroman felt.

Roxanne and Minion are trying to be supportive, but they don't really know how to help.

He's also moving into a more "heroic" lair, and is trying out more heroic suits. (White and blue instead of black and blue.)

Anyways, the container that held the powers given to Titan is being transported, admittedly not very carefully, when it breaks, releasing the powers into the city and granting other people powers.

Now, the powers had been harvested from Metroman's DNA. The thing about DNA is that it degrades over time. So, a few years prior it would have given people exact copies of Metroman's powers, it doesn't do that this time.

There are gaps in the DNA that's granting powers, and the recipient's DNA fills in the gaps, altering the powers they're granted.

This also means it'll be harder to remove them.

There will be a scene where Megamind and Minion need help, and Metroman shows up to save them.

Obviously, people are at first elated that Metroman is alive, but then react angrily at realizing he just left them.

Roxanne will give a great speech about how the public never cared about Megamind or Metroman, and they should be ashamed of themselves for it.

There will also be a few characters who want to be heroes, but are granted powers that are seemingly useless. Eventually, they realize their powers are more than that, they are more than that, and figure out all that their powers are capable of.

Metroman tells Megamind that he doesn't need a "heroic" lair or costume, that he's a better hero as himself than when he's trying to be like Metroman.

They defeat a big bad who'd been rallying up superpowered criminals for a big fight.

The final scene shows that the new lair has design elements from Megamind and Metroman. It would also show that they have more people with powers to track down and potentially fight.

The new team is called Megamind and the Metro Men.

And it could lead into a TV series if necessary.

It’s weird that they simply dropped Josh Mankey as a character. All they have done with him was say he and Kim drifted apart and we don’t even get an explanation of where he went last season. Wish they actually shown us the progress of the relationship and how it broke apart.

Yeah, that is weird.

My personal headcanon: the reason he's not seen later in the series is because he graduated. I mean, there's nothing that states he's the same age as Kim and Ron, so he could be older.

As for his relationship with Kim, I would have liked to see more of it, and gotten a better explanation for why they broke up.

I mean, and this isn't an attempt to diss Kim, saying they drifted apart and it was time to move on sounds like the explanation you give when you don't want to talk about the real reason you broke up.

Obviously, Josh hadn't done anything bad, otherwise Kim wouldn't have had a problem talking about it, but I doubt it was truly as simple as growing apart.

There could be a lot of reasons for their breakup, and I'm very interested in hearing what other people think might have been the actual reason.

First off, I'd like to thank you for taking the time to reply to me. It doesn't happen often, so I do appreciate it.

Secondly, I'm going to politely disagree with you.

To address some of your points:

I will agree with you that Kim would try to hide an embarrassing incident from her childhood, and that Ron would probably have forgotten it, so I will actually agree with you on that one.

Ron agreed to forget that Shego and Kim get their eyebrows waxed in "Stop Team Go", so I agree with you there.

But it's revealed that Kim asked Ron to help her when her braces got stuck to Walter Nelson's in the eighth grade, so it seems like Kim calls Ron when something embarrassing happens. So him not knowing about the singing incident does seem unusual.

I can kind of see your point about Ron having his own interests, but he's been known to tell Kim about all of them; wrestling, video games, boy bands, etc. He's never had an interest Kim didn't know about, so her not knowing he bakes seems unusual.

He started baking after getting a toy oven for his eighth birthday, something Kim was around for, so it seems like something he'd tell Kim about almost immediately. For him to not tell Kim about it is unusual.

I appreciate your perspective on the family situation, but Kim and Ron aren't Latin American; they're from Colorado. Kim doesn't have a lot of cousins she hasn't seen since childhood. Larry's been coming over to her house once a month since she was three, and she at least keeps in touch with Joss via email.

Ron lives next door to Kim, so the fact that he never noticed Larry going over to Kim's house is unusual.

I can be more understanding of not knowing about Joss, since it does seem like they haven't seen each other in person in a while.

Ron doesn't strike you as the kind of character who would ask for help with things like that? No offense, but when was the last time you watched the show?

Ron is known to whine and complain about everything, especially to Kim. He asks for Kim's help with anything, so the fact that he never asked for help with bullies, either the ones at school or his cousin, is unusual and out of character for him.

He's known Kim longer than he's been bullied, longer than Shaun's been alive, and isn't afraid to ask for her help, so it seems strange that Kim never knew about either of those instances.

In "A Sitch in Time" it's revealed that they met when Kim saved Ron from bullies, albeit in the alternate timeline it was Drakken, Killigan, and Monkey Fist as toddlers, so it doesn't make sense that Ron wouldn't ask Kim for help with that.

I will grant that we don't know what event lead to them being friends in the unaltered timeline, but I feel my point still stands.

I have nothing against them still learning new things about each other, given that they're at that age where they're still learning new things about themselves, so I can understand not knowing some things about each other.

Ron's interest in boy bands was a fairly recent development, he didn't even like them before the episode.

Kim's obsession with designer brand clothes probably didn't happen until she had her own spending money.

Those are understandable things to just be learning about each other.

But the specific things I mentioned in my original post are things that they would've been reasonably expected to know each about each other by the start of the show.

Kim and Ron's dynamic seems...off. They don't seem like they've been best friends for ten years, it'd make more sense if they had only recently become friends, like in middle school.

And I'm not just saying that because Kim can be mean and judgmental at times, especially towards Ron. I'm saying that because, despite being best friends for 10+ years and living next door to each other, they don't seem to know things about each other that actual long-term best friends would.

"Monkey Fist Strikes" - Ron is aware that Kim dislikes her cousin Larry, but never knew about the monthly family game nights that have been going on since she was three.

"Mind Games" - Kim had no idea that Ron's been getting bullied since kindergarten. This especially makes no sense as this is something Ron would've asked Kim for help with. It definitely should have come up at some point.

"Two to Tutor" - Kim is genuinely surprised that Ron is good at baking, even though he's been doing it since he was eight.

"Hidden Talent" - Ron is unaware that Kim can sing, or that she has trouble hitting the high notes. Bonnie was able to obtain a video of this event, but somehow Ron was still unaware of it before now.

"Showdown at The Crooked D" - Ron is unaware that Kim has an uncle and a cousin, even though Kim actually seemed excited to see Joss.

"Bad Boy" - Kim is completely unaware of the existence of Ron's evil cousin Shaun, despite this being another thing that would make sense for Ron to ask Kim's help with.

I understand that they need a way to explain stuff to the audience, but can you imagine being someone's best friend for ten years, living next door to them, and not knowing about their family and interests?

Would they really be your best friend if you two knew so little about each other?

Thoughts on Josh Mankey

So, in some fanfiction, I've seen Josh portrayed as, well...I wouldn't say mean, but not as nice as canon. This is usually to highlight how Ron is better for Kim. Obviously, I'm going to have issues with this.

Firstly, Josh is kind and patient. When Kim is acting weird on their date, he doesn't seem bothered by it. Maybe concerned, but he never once loses his cool.

Secondly, he's accepting. Though Kim's interest in putting marshmallows on hotdogs is weird, he doesn't give her a hard time about it. And he doesn't seem judgmental towards Ron for still trick-or-treating in "October 31st". (Actually, he seemed to enjoy that.)

Lastly, he's charitable. Near the end of "Blush" we learn that Josh worked with some kids to clean up a bunch of graffiti and paint a mural in place.

Josh is a kind, caring, patient, and tolerant guy who volunteers to work with kids and paints murals after cleaning up graffiti. He's also a musician and likes hanging out with Ron too. ("October 31st")

So, if people want to get Josh out of the way to have Kim and Ron end up together earlier, portraying Josh as a horrible person doesn't have to be an option.

I’m always wondering if it was better or worse for BBT and Young Sheldon creators to say that Sheldon is NOT on the spectrum. But then I see how they treat neurodivergence on shows like Miraculous, and go probably better they keep away from stuff they don’t understand.

I suspect what happened with Sheldon’s character is that they probably modeled him after people they either didn’t know or didn’t care were on the spectrum and by the time everyone was like “hey this guy is obviously autistic” they’d made fun of him too many times to suddenly claim being pioneers of sitcom neurodivergent representation without also having to accept responsibility for their past attitudes towards him

I do, however, think the red itchy sweater episode was fantastic in delivering a message regarding some forms of neurosis

As for ML, it is, at its core, a tell don’t show series. These characters are in love, are close friends, are good at X and Y, are passionate about this and that, hate Z, so on and so forth. We rarely learn about characters and happenstances through actions, to the point where very clear irrefutable events are verbally retconned by random characters and we’re supposed to accept what they say as canon over what we saw. It doesn’t matter if characters are noticeably queer, neurodivergent, good/bad at something, biased about certain people/subjects, struggling with XYZ, etc. If someone doesn’t outright state it, it isn’t canon. This is where the crew loves to claim brownie points for representation but doesn’t actually do anything that might upset the Suits and their bigotry. They have an ethnically diverse character lineup but they’re all perfectly assimilated to white french culture and rarely acknowledge their own supposed heritage. They criticize police abuse but have the victims apologize to their assailants. They have queer characters but their relationships are mostly implied off-screen so they have plausible deniability. They have kids whose parents are clearly mistreating them to the point of leaving lifelong scars and affecting their ability to become functional members of society but it’s obviously not abuse.

I swear there’s some kind of disconnect between the dialogue and the action lines on the script, like no one member of the crew knows what the other is doing and everything is just taped together at the end with no revisions

Sometimes it doesn't feel like Kim Possible is an actual character in her own show. And, on the surface, that makes no sense.

She has multiple personality traits, both good and bad; confidence, a desire to help others, concern over what others think of her, gets frustrated when she doesn't instantly excel at something, competitive, judgmental, kind of controlling, etc.

These are traits that should lead to well-developed character who people can relate to.

But she feels more like an icon than a character, and I think I know why.

Ron also has multiple traits, but he feels more real, and that's because they spend more time exploring Ron's thoughts and feelings. They don't just give Ron character traits, they explain them.

That doesn't happen for Kim.

A lot of Kim's traits exist in a vacuum; there's no reasoning for them. It's never explored why Kim is, say, competitive or controlling, just that she is.

Kim is confident in her abilities. This might have come from her parents constantly believing in her, but it's not really explored.

Kim gets easily frustrated if she doesn't instantly excel at something. Though it's relatable, it'd be better if the reason for this was explored more.

Kim is competitive. To the point of sabotage. To the point of considering sneaking into a game for a team she was coaching because she couldn't stand the thought of losing. There's no explanation for this, as her parents would definitely encourage sportsmanship and fun over winning.

Kim is judgmental of interests she doesn't share. But "Monkey Fist Strikes" shows that she definitely didn't pick this up from her family. And it's definitely not one they'd have encouraged.

Kim is controlling to the point that she expects Ron to always be willing to drop whatever he's doing to join her on a mission. To the point that she doesn't let other people handle tasks for her, even when she clearly can't do them on her own. Again, there doesn't seem to be a reason for this trait. It's never explored why Kim is like this.

Kim refuses to acknowledge that Ron is important to her success. Again, it's never explored why Kim refuses to recognize Ron's contributions to her success.

These are traits that could lead to an interesting character who grows and develops as a person.

But, because the show never wants to explore Kim's reasons for being this way, she doesn't get to really grow as a person.

And that's why she doesn't feel like a character in the series. She doesn't grow or change, and her underlying thoughts and feelings and reasons for being the way she is aren't explored.

And it's kind of detrimental to character development.

If part of your house randomly burst into flames at times, solving the problem wouldn't just involve acknowledging the flames and putting them out. You'd also have to figure out why it bursts into flames, even if it's uncomfortable.

In order for Kim to truly grow and develop as a character, it's not enough to just acknowledge that Kim has flaws, it's also important to explore why she's like that.

But, since that doesn't happen, Kim doesn't feel as relatable as Ron.

And this leads to Kim seeming like less of a character in her own show.

It has come to my attention that a lot of people are probably under the impression that I hate Kim since I criticize her behavior a lot.

This is not true.

I do believe that Kim is selfish and very flawed.

And I'm frustrated that her flaws are often overlooked or ignored or, in the rare instances where her harmful actions are actually acknowledged, downplayed, easily forgiven, and not changed.

But this is not because I hate Kim.

This is because I love Kim, or at least I used to, and wish she had gotten better character development.

Kim is the main character. Heck, Kim is the titular character. Kim is the focus of the show.

But Ron is the relatable character. Ron is the one who gets the most development. Ron got so much development that, in the fourth season, they actually had him take a back seat on some missions to a literal baby because they made Ron too good to keep being Kim's sidekick.

(Not sure if that was their thought process or intention, but it happened.)

Overall, Kim remains a static character. What little character development she gets does not compare to Ron. At all.

Now, obviously I love Ron, too.

But Kim also should have gotten character development. And every time the creators had a chance for it, they decided against it.

I would honestly love Kim a lot more if they had given her the same level of character development they gave Ron.

I mean, the fans deserve that, at least.

This is probably small in the grand scheme of things, but how did Emilie being noble play any impact in the story at all?

I mean, I'd get it if it was just a small detail to help deepen Emilie's character, but why nobility of all things? I don't know, from what I'm seeing so far, the whole "Emilie renounced her noble title" shtick just feels worthless if it's not going to impact the story or add depth to Emilie's character (like maybe upbringing or personal values?).

I don't know. Like everything else, the noble part just feels shallow and means nothing to the story, especially for a character like Emilie, who is the plot device for the whole show. Any detail about her, like her personality and life story, is supposed to influence the story and characters one way or another, namely Hawkmoth since she's his driving force.

So what was the point?

For context, this ask is about Félix's play which says that Emilie gave up her title to be with Gabriel. I'm gonna give a slightly larger section of the transcript of the play for full context, but the relevant but is at the end of the last paragraph:

Félix: The king and queen's twins grew up, each day as different in heart as they were similar in body. The firstborn, curious and brazen, despised life at court and escaped at every opportunity. The younger daughter, well-behaved and respectful, did everything she could to please her parents, and stayed quietly in the castle. Félix: (as Mr. Graham de Vanily) Oh, my queen. Did we entrust our legacy to the right princess? Kagami: (as Mrs. Graham de Vanily) She will fall in line, eventually. Félix: Confident that she would settle down as she matured, the king and queen allowed the curious princess to leave to study beyond the sea in another kingdom. There, she immediately found true love in a humble tailor. Félix: The tailor was making clothes so magnificent that they revealed the beauty of the soul of anyone who wore them. Although it made her parents furious, the curious princess gave up her rank, her wealth and her kingdom to live a bohemian life with the tailor.

Story wise, I have no idea why any of this was added since it adds nothing to canon. It's not like this finally explains why Gabriel and Emilie are poor while Amelie is wealthy. Along similar lines, it's not like Amelie's title has ever mattered. Prior to this play, I don't think that we even knew that she had a title or that she was the younger sister. The play is all about explaining things that we never had reasons to question in the first place.

My best guess as to why the writers wrote this pointless backstory is that they wanted to make Emilie seem even more pure and perfect so they went with the tired old trope of a rich girl giving up material things for the sake of love and art because good pure women don't care about material things! Only nasty, shallow women care about money. (Way to play into sexist tropes, guys.)

There may also be cultural elements at play here given that France doesn't have the greatest history with nobility, so giving up a noble title may be seen as good and pure to a French writer, but I don't know enough about French culture to say that with any certainty. If anyone who reads this blog is French and would like to chime in, then feel free!

While we're on the topic of the play, I wanted to point out that the above quoted passage is why I say that the Graham de Vanily parents can be as kind or as abusive as you'd like to make them. It's incredibly vague and you can read into it whatever you want to read into it. Were they good loving parents who were just upset about their daughter living in poverty or were they miserable controlling classist who Emilie fled England to get away from? It's up to you because you can get both reads from this. The play commits to almost nothing of value. Politicians could take lessons from this impressive level of noncommittal writing.

A better version of the play would have focused on things that actually matter to canon like the details of finding the miraculous and/or Emilie learning she's sick, but you could only have those details if they were coming from Nathalie or Gabriel. Félix is a terrible choice for a character to tell us the show's backstory because he knows so little of it, thus the play focusing on his largely pointless backstory.