Mental Crop Rotation

“I hope you let yourself learn from the moments of stillness, the moments of silence, and the moments of rest. I hope you see that even when you don’t think there is any growth happening, there is — it’s just steady and slow.”

— Megan Minutillo, Please Embrace The Slowness

I’m going to give you the best piece of Adult Life Is Hard advice I’ve ever learned:

Talk to people when things go to shit.

I don’t just mean get it off your chest, although that’s good. I mean: Something’s wrong with your paycheck/you lost your job/you had unexpected emergency car repairs and now you’re broke so your credit card payment is late. Like, not just 15 days late. We’re talking, shit got crazy and now you’re 90 days late with compounded interest and late fees and the Minimum Payment Due is, like, $390, and you’ve got about $3.90 in your bank account. Call the credit card company. 

I know it’s scary. I know you feel like you’re going to get in trouble, like you’re gong to get yelled at or scolded for not having your life together. But the credit card company isn’t your parents; they’re just interested in getting money from you. And you can’t squeeze blood from a stone or money from someone who doesn’t have any. So what you do is you call them. You explain you’re experiencing temporary financial hardships, and you’re currently unable to bring your account up to date, but you don’t want to just let it get worse. Can you maybe talk to someone about a payment plan so you can work something out? Nine times out of ten you’ll be able to negotiate something so that at least it’s not just taking a constant, giant shit on your credit score.

- Can’t pay your power bill? Call the power company.

- Can’t pay your full rent? Talk to your landlord.

- Had to go to the hospital without insurance and have giant medical bills looming in your place? Call the hospital and ask if they have someone who helps people with financial hardships. Many do.

- Got super sick and missed half a semester of class because flu/pneumonia/auto-immune problems/depressive episode? Talk to your professor. If that doesn’t help, talk to your advisor.

You may not be able to fix everything, but you’ll likely be able to make improvements. At the very least, it’s possible that they have a list of people you can contact to help you with things. (Also, don’t be afraid to google things like, “I can’t pay my power bill [state you live in]” because you’d be surprised at what turns up on Google!) But the thing is, people in these positions gain nothing if you fail. There’s no emotional satisfaction for them if your attempts at having your life together completely bite the dust. In fact, they stand to benefit if things work out for you! And chances are, they’ll be completely happy to take $20 a month from you over getting $0 a month from you, your account will be considered current because you’ve talked to them and made an agreement, you won’t get reported to a collections agency, and your credit score won’t completely tank.

Here’s some helpful tips to keep in mind:

1. Be polite. Don’t demand things; request them. Let me tell you about how customer service people hold your life in their hands and how many extra miles they’ll go for someone who is nice to them.

2. Stick to the facts, and keep them minimal unless asked for them. Chances are they’re not really interested in the details. “We had several family emergencies in a row, and now I’m having trouble making the payments” is better than “Well, two months ago my husband wrecked his bike, and then he had a reaction to the muscle relaxer they gave him, and then our dog swallowed a shoestring and we had to take him to the emergency clinic, and just last week MY car broke down, and now my account’s in the negatives and I don’t know how I’m gonna get it back out.” The person you’re talking to is aware shit happens to everyone; they don’t need the details to prove you’re somehow “worthy” of being helped. They may ask you for details at a certain point if they have to fill out any kind of request form, but let them do that.

3. Ask questions. “Is there anything we can do about X?” “Would it be possible to move my payment date to Y day instead so it’s not coming out of the same paycheck as my rent?” The answer may be “no.” That’s not a failure on your part. But a good customer service person may have an alternate solution. 

Anyway! I hope that helps! Don’t just assume the answer is “no” before you’ve even begun. There is more help out there than you ever imagined.

Any advice on how to approach tough conversations with my parents without getting overwhelmed and crying?

-Keep in mind that not every discussion is a fight. It doesn’t have to turn into a fight.

-Think about what you want to say on beforehand. You can write your ideas if possible so you don’t miss any point or get lost within the conversation.

-Tell your parents that you want to talk about something important. Schedule a brief time with them in which they can give you their attention.

-Let them know why talking about that subject is important for you.

-Your emotional well being goes first. If the thing is getting ugly you can ask to pause the conversation and re take it when everybody is more calm (this particular tip has made wonders in the relationship with my mom).

-Keep your voicetone calm but steady. Don’t shout, and try to not get heated. Remember that it’s a conversation. Don’t get defensive even if they do. The outcome might not be what you wanted and that might be frustrating but try to stay calm.

-Some phrases that might help are:

“I would like to know what you think of (the subject)”

“Why do you think that way? What are your concerns?”

“I understand why you say it but I do not agree”

“From my point of view…”

“I would appreciate if you could give thought to (subject)” and negotiate a partial agreement

“I don’t agree with that but I respect your decision/ will support you”

-If things don’t go your way you can always try again when armed with resources.

And even if the outcome isn’t what you wanted I am already proud of you for speaking out. I believe you and support you.

all i’m interested in lately is love, laughter, my personal health, growth, and becoming an all around radiant soul.

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Hm... I definitely have some dependent traits. But some borderline traits, too, and a few NPD.

(I have a theory that AvPD, BPD and NPD are different expressions of the same core issue. They all circle around a very particular kind of shame, which is why we can all learn a lot from each other. I’ll have to do more research before I can figure out if DPD fits the same pattern though)

I believe I have both avpd and dpd, but it's kind of confusing for me. Do you think that's possible, and if so how do you think a person with both would behave (for comparison to myself)?

I think DPD is confusing for a lot of people, so don’t worry, you’re not alone in that. But AvPD and DPD is actually a really common co-morbidity, as you can see by the data at this link: here. (Beware of Out of the FOG in general, but it’s the only site that has statistical data on these things.) Plus, PDs are most co-morbid with other ones in the same cluster.

Someone with both AvPD and DPD would probably have a pronounced relationship with a “safe person”, I imagine. Who in this case would also be what I think the majority of the DPD community refers to as their “depended”. But while most people with DPD seek validation and dependence from many people, and rely on the opinions of others for whatever they do, I think people with AvPD as well would mainly focus on the one person, and be terrified of engaging with others, even if they wanted to.

But experiences will vary, as they always do. There are a myriad of experiences for any disorder, so matter what the clinical expectation is. Some people suffer from some symptoms more than others.

I hope that helps!

- Shinji

I know covid 19 has been going on for long. It is terrible and I hope with all my heart that it is over soon. I want you to know that following the restrictions save lives, and it’s okay if they make you sad. It’s okay if everything seems harder now than in the first months. We have been in this a long time and now it’s (for some of us atleast) very dark outside. It is hard. It is lonely, but we got to keep on going. We will make it. There is light ahead with vaccines. More and more restrictions may be added, dependent on where we each live. It will be okay again. Hang in there. For what it is worth: You are not alone and your feelings are valid. It’s scary and it may be getting to you a lot more now as the months went on. Winter is already a tough season for many people. Adding covid 19 on top of that? That is a lot. Do not beat yourself up. Hang in there, do what you can to take care of yourself and talk to someone.

We will make it through. It will be hard, but we will make it. 🌸

you don’t have to change your life overnight, but try to add good things to it each day.

Sorry for being vague. Well, I have a pretty good relationship with my parents, but they get irritated and sometimes angry because of my sensitivity and how hard it is for me to approach someone and hold a conversation, or do something simple like order food. They tell me that I need to get over it and act appropriate for my age. I want to talk to them about my AVPD so that they might better understand why I act like this and possibly be able to help, or at least not put as much pressure on me

Thanks so much for clarifying! I’m glad you did, because this turns out to be a very different post than I was planning to write.

First of all, here’s some really good clinical descriptions of Avoidant Personality Disorder: Cleveland Clinic, and DSM.

The most fundamental thing:

You don’t experience the world the same way your parents do.

You live in the same world, of course. But the way you perceive, interpret and experience it, is very different. It’s like your brain applies a different filter.

You have certain specific needs, ones that your parents do not have.

That means they can’t rely on “what works for them” as a guide to what will work for you.

(Further, excellent reading: the Usual Error.)

The fact is, certain things are actually harder for you than for most people. And certain things are actually damaging to you, even though they might not damage others.

It’s a real issue. Your parents need to understand that you can’t turn this off.

It got built-in, which is the whole problem; everything grew around it. It’s integrated with your entire personality and the way you exist in the world.

You can’t choose which parts of your life it affects or doesn’t. By definition, a PD harms almost every aspect of your life, whether you want it to or not.

And this fact doesn’t change just because someone is mad at you or is being inconvenienced by your difficulties.

Becoming un-disordered is a very, very intricate and painstaking process, and it does not happen by force.

Personality disorders are complex.

AvPD is part anxiety disorder, part codependency/boundary problems, part emotional dysfunction; and like other PD’s, it’s viciously self-reinforcing.

(Social anxiety could be a helpful frame of reference for your parents. AvPD is like social anxiety, but different & more complex, so it’s tougher to deal with.)

It is very hard to get out of the PD cycle. That’s why every one of us needs a lot of help before we can find our way out.

Personality disorders mean inflexibility.

Part of that is, we take the same approach to all kinds of different problems. Even when a different solution would work better, we cling to avoidance.

Other people can watch us do the same thing over again, even though it was a disaster the last three times, and wonder why we can’t learn.

It’s not that we don’t know how things “should” be, or how we “should” act. We’re already perfectionists! We don’t need you to tell us.

And when people announce that we’re failing, or point out what we’re doing wrong, or how to do it better, that makes it worse. 

It directly feeds our perfectionism, our fear of criticism, and our avoidance.

Knowing doesn’t fix it.

It’s not that kind of problem.

That’s why nobody can “snap us out of it” or make us “get over it.”

What we need is, to be given the chance to heal and grow.

We need to be cared for, accepted, and supported.

People with AvPD especially need help to get out of it. Avoidance keeps us in an ever-tightening loop of limited experiences. And then we have fewer opportunities to try new things; fewer chances to become more flexible.

It’s reallllly hard for us to “accidentally” get better.

Recovering from a personality disorder is a process of slowly untangling all the messed-up stuff in our head, and learning good useful stuff to replace it.

It’s kind of like “remedial” emotional education.

This is where therapy really shines – that’s what it’s for. A therapist can teach you about emotions, how to deal with them, and how to get your needs met.

But even further than that …

The relationship you have with a well-matched therapist is a corrective experience for you.

The things that led to this disorder, whatever they were, happened in the dimension of relating to others. You have emotional learning from that. It can’t be changed by thinking about it, or by willpower.

It has to be overwritten, by a new, healing connection with another human being.

Great therapy can do this. Certain great friendships or other relationships can too, if you approach them consciously and carefully.

But again: This doesn’t happen by accident. Your parents need to know that they can’t just ignore this problem and hope it will go away, because it won’t.

If you’re close to someone with AvPD…

… the very best thing you can do for them is make sure they know that you accept who and how they are; that you support whatever they want to do; and you love them unconditionally – there’s nothing they can do that will end your positive regard for them.

And then, prove it in actions. Even when it is not easy for you to do.

Having one little safe corner in our lives can help us cope, a lot.

And, Anon, that sounds like what you’re asking for. Hopefully, your parents will be patient and sympathetic enough to give that to you. <3

(Some more stuff specifically for/about them, under the readmore.)

So, your parents need to know that this isn’t new.

The fact that you’re only now telling them about it, doesn’t mean it just started happening.

This is a thing that has been there for a very long time. It is your “normal.” The only difference is, now you (and your parents) know there is a name for it.

Denying the name or denying that you have any problems …..isn’t going to remove the problems.

Your parents are probably going to have a lot of feelings about hearing this.

It’s hard to learn that your kid is struggling, that they have a real problem and you can’t make it go away. It is normal to wonder if it’s your fault or try to figure out what you did wrong.

It’s OK to have emotional reactions to this news. Absolutely fine.

But your kid needs you to be present with them right now, and they need you to listen to them, and take them seriously.

They need you to believe them.

If you need to go sort out your own feelings about it before you can do that, tell them so, go do that privately, and then come back to continue the discussion once you’re able to be supportive.

Be patient. Try very hard to be open-minded. Be willing to learn.

It is a huge act of trust for them to tell you about this stuff. Don’t let down that trust. Honestly, you’ll probably never get it back.

Here are some typical reactions when somebody finally gets diagnosed, or discovers there’s a name for what they experience (self-diagnosed).

Understandably, when you find out that your problems are a Real Thing, you’re pretty delighted. And you want to share it with the people close to you.

You are like, “yeah, woo! Finally, there is a name for this! There is vocabulary to express how it feels! There are other people who have this thing too! It’s not uncharted territory! I’m not alone!!!”

And then you are like, “Wait. People have gotten mad at me for the things I’ve done because of this problem, and that wasn’t fair. That hurt me. It wasn’t my fault, and I’m not a bad person. I’m not broken or defective. I’m not lazy. I’m not selfish. I’m doing the best I can to survive my own mind.

“How can they complain about getting splashed from standing next to me, when I’m the one getting the bucket of water dumped on my head?”

These are all, totally normal reactions to finally getting a diagnosis/finding words for what you’re dealing with. They are OK to feel; they’re just feelings, not moral judgments; and they are not anybody’s job to fix.

Generally, there’s two basic things you want to hear from your family.

First: “Wow, I had no idea you were experiencing this. That must have been so difficult and lonely. These issues aren’t your fault, and I never should have blamed you for having a hard time doing things. I’m sorry. What can I do to help you now?”

Second: “I am so happy for you! You’ve had to work so hard just to get by, and now you know the reason. Now you can actually figure out how this works and how to have a life and be happy! This is amazing, we are so proud! Tell us how we can support you so you can have an awesome life!”

And then you tell them what you need, which often comes down to: “Right now I just need to be reassured that you still love me, and then I want to discuss this again once I’ve figured out what to ask for.”

It’s a hard adjustment for a family (or a couple, or whatever) to make. And it’s scary, for everyone.

But if everyone remembers to breathe a little, to not assume the worst, and try listen to each other – you can get through it. And it can turn out to be a really good thing.

Hi! Sorry to bother you, but I'm almost certain I have AVPD and I'd like to explain it to my parents, since they've gotten upset over symptoms of AVPD that I've expressed and I want to tell them why I act like that. But they don't really think that PDs are a thing that exists. so how could I explain it to them so that they understand? thank you in advance !!

Hi there anon!

Wow, there’s a lot to unpack here. The most important is probably:

What you want to accomplish by telling your parents

What your relationship with your parents is like

Would you mind sharing a bit more about the situation?

Here’s the thing about personality disorders.

Among everyone I know with Avoidant Personality Disorder, I’m one of the happiest, most outgoing, and most emotionally secure.

I have strong, positive, intimate relationships in my life.

I feel comfortable interacting with strangers.

I even make friends easily.

(The secret they don’t tell you is that even when you’re good at it, not everyone is a good choice to try it with!)

But this week, despite all of those things,

I still turned off my phone to avoid a dreaded phonecall.

I was crushed by a moderate disappointment.

I genuinely worry that my friends have stopped liking me, and that I’m not welcome in my social groups anymore (“they’re finally onto me!”).

When someone confronted me about something, even without any overt hostility, I had an anxiety attack before I could respond. And after the conversation I cried in bed, so hard that when I got up, I had tiny fresh bruises around my eyes.

Most days, I have the impulse to take down posts that feel too personal, too confused, too me.

I doubt myself and everything I’m trying to do. Sometimes I still feel like hiding in a closet for the rest of my life would be a better idea.

And I obviously still struggle with all my usual avoidance problems -- like the effort it takes to leave the house.

There are extenuating circumstances, but...

...the thing about having a personality disorder -- or any mental illness! -- is that it’s always there in the background.

It’s usually always under the surface. It can affect everything in your life.

And even when someone seems to be doing really, really well, this is still something they have to be aware of and careful with. Sometimes, if you’re recovering, it feels like it’s always waiting to take over again.

There are always triggers. There are always situations that will prompt a disordered response. Sometimes you’ll be able to choose away from acting on that response, and sometimes you won’t.

And there’s never a time when self-care stops being important.

So if you’re struggling?

Don’t worry. It doesn’t mean anything’s wrong with you, and it doesn’t mean you’re worse than everybody else. Because everybody has times where things are hard and awful.

It’s okay to talk about how much it sucks. We all need validation and support.

It’s also okay to deliberately focus on what’s good and what successes you’re having, if that’s helpful for you.

You can even do both at the same time. In spite of all the things I listed up there:

I turned my phone back on and called them back! I used my self-talk skills to cope with the disappointment! I kept showing up to my social group! I had the confrontational talk and survived! I didn’t take down any posts! I learned some things!

Most of us tend to downplay our victories and emphasize our faults and mistakes. Consciously doing the opposite of that can help us change our thought habits.

But mostly:

There’s no wrong way to heal. There’s no wrong way to get better, or learn what you need to learn. And you can get stronger and grow as a person, even when you have lots of bad days.

What works for you is good enough, and that’s all that matters. <3