Oda Being A Writer Of Heavy Themes Doesn’t Mean Every Random Interaction Is Abuse, That Has Nothing

Oda being a writer of heavy themes doesn’t mean every random interaction is abuse, that has nothing to do with the fact that Shanks and Buggy are not an abusive friendship. They literally fight over things the way they did as children. Shanks isn’t some helpless guy being abused, nobody thinks this way when they look into them, Buggy having a rough attitude and Shanks being the even-tempered one has always been their dynamic since they were kids. Shanks is capable of tricking Buggy by lying about a treasure map, he knows how to work Buggy, they can bicker and bite back at each other. It’s not even that shitty, it’s just a typical One Piece friendship between men. No one is stopping you from disliking it, it’s how you police other fans from liking a typical dynamic in the story that’s not even presented as toxic.

Posttimeskip, what has Buggy done to Shanks that feels terrible or abusive at its worst? They seem to be living their own lives. What have they done besides being typical enemy pirates working on different things and not talk to each other? Buggy canonically doesn’t even hit Shanks unless Shanks is also hitting him back like Nami does with the Strawhats. Buggy just says he’s angry over the treasure map. You could say objectively, even if Nami hits for the right reasons that’s still bad, beating up someone whenever you think they deserve it and they don’t fight back is still bad.

I basically mean you’re treating the shitty thing as unacceptable because it seems to be one of the crimes Buggy committed against Shanks. What change of behavior? He left to start his own pirate crew, neither of them sought each other out, what change of behavior are we supposed to see? They’re both enemy pirates going after the One Piece, at this point a sudden behavioral change doesn’t make sense and serves no purpose to the plot.

Nothing better to add then Buggy didn’t turn him down civilly. We’re suddenly judging characters by how civil they act in a show about pirates? Their father figure just died it was a pretty emotional moment. It was supposed to be a bad time  and emotional fallout.

I’m explaining why that dynamic exists from the characters’ portrayal in the story. I’m not saying Shanks can ‘handle it’, I’m saying in his view the argument would be so meaningless he would either fight back equally petty or completely forget about it, because that’s who his character is. Most of these arguments are just stuff that annoys them, because there hasn’t been anything they seriously have to fight about, or it just highlights their differences. While Shanks seems to care about fun and adventure, Buggy cares about piracy the connection between him and Shanks is based on their shared life of piracy. So when their views of piracy don’t align they have to separate. When they fight about the North Pole and South Pole, it’s an equal disagreement and we don’t know how it started. When Shanks lied about the treasure map and Buggy gets mad, neither of them actually seem victimized, Shanks just looks smarter and like he knows Buggy well for being able to trick him. That’s their canon dynamic, and the author writes it as a funny way to depict old friends. Friendships have that kind of dynamic where you’re both reckless with each other. You see this kind of dynamic in characters and pairings throughout One Piece. It’s not even about abuse it’s about friendship dynamics being able to do things everything without it becoming a matter of hard feelings, close friends are able fight and be flawed that can be lighthearted without it being overly sensitive about every little thing, realistic close relationships argue and act like idiots. Sanji can simp and Nami can beat people up because they’re close enough they can act like idiots with each other and know it’s not seriously harmful.

What’s the worst thing they have to apologize for? The separation at Loguetown? That was Buggy’s choice as his own free person. Shanks or Buggy could’ve sought out each other for twenty years in East Blue if they wanted to. Neither of them have to apologize, both of them likely have regretful feelings, it was an emotional night where they saw Roger die. As a reader, we should know Buggy doesn’t pose serious harm towards Shanks.

I’m not downplaying Shanks’ emotions. I’m saying between them there aren’t any major fights that are worth taking seriously, besides maybe Loguetown, but even that separation was for the best. Even objectively, it’s not a crime to go their own ways. Any serious fight, Shanks would fight back as he’s not shy about doing so with Buggy, but when he doesn’t it’s because it’s a superficial matter. Or Shanks also has flaws and the problem dynamic goes both ways. Just because Shanks doesn’t visibly shout or get angry doesn’t mean he can’t also be a flawed person and bad partner. I’ve seen your post being angry over the idea Shanks would shower more and drink less if he was with Buggy. Those are both completely inconsequential things that don’t hurt Shanks, it’s just a habit of his that someone could nag him about. Most of the fandom content you seem to complain about aren’t actually as serious as you claim and not worth screaming toxic over, you think even a slight attitude is toxic. I’ve never seen content where Buggy genuinely considers Shanks trash and Shanks suffers through the pain to treat Buggy preciously but you act like it’s everywhere. I’m not sure what example you’re talking about when it comes to serious arguments where Buggy treats him like trash over something genuinely serious and Shanks just doesn’t fight back. Most seem either like a joke or an inconsequential fight like the fruit and map, or because of the Loguetown fallout which was a miscommunication as kids anyways, so what other serious matter is there?

So many of these characters would be crazy in real life, if I was constantly thinking about real life I wouldn’t be able to watch the Strawhats because they’d be so much worse in real life. Buggy having an attitude and still being simped after looks incredibly tame compared to viewing the other characters through a real world lens. But this is a fantasy story where the bad attitudes play a role in entertainment and over-exaggerating character dynamics.

I understand if you just don’t like a character dynamic, but this is a fantasy story where every character dynamic is exaggerated for entertainment in some way. They’re enemy pirates, they aren’t even currently on speaking terms. One is the one who holds no grudges, the other still does, and fans just play on this existing dynamic because it aligns with their characters. It’s not even that absurd because Buggy is someone close to Shanks, they separated, had a petty fight, and are separately operating their own crews. Personally I don’t care for the overuse of Shanks as a lovesick dog but that’s a general fandom issue and not even that big of a deal.

So you refuse to accept that others might have a gentler interpretation of Buggy’s character by denying canon itself. Yet you claim this is not a bad faith reading at all, yeah, sure.

This isn’t Buggy is a tsundere argument, I never even used that word. The treasure map specifically is used as a joke and coverup in canon. We literally see Buggy using that as an excuse during Loguetown separation, when his true feelings were actually hidden, did you miss that? The treasure map is the petty thing you did that your old friend keeps bringing up. Buggy’s anger at Shanks is because of their separation at Loguetown. His inner thoughts and spoken words were different, because his inner thoughts were his real feelings. That’s what the men of One Piece are like, they don’t genuinely say their emotions because they have too much pride as men and pirates. By having Buggy use the treasure map excuse in Loguetown, it makes us understand the feelings he had everytime he said that before.

In Impel Down, there was an instance where Luffy was also very happy to see Buggy alive. Buggy is clearly treated as an annoyance like Mr 3. You don’t have to be a saint, more like understand that in the world of pirates fights happen all the time, and you learn to choose which squabbles are worth your time. Buggy is like a rock in his shoe, he’s annoying but he’s not someone like Blackbeard or Akainu. Luffy doesn’t like Buggy but he recognizes Buggy’s just a loser with some petty grudge against Shanks. If Buggy was seriously harmful towards Shanks he wouldn’t act so nonchalant with him. You think Buggy is going to be the villain that’s hardest to forgive? Buggy obviously is being shown in a more positive light when he made the speech about the One Piece and roped in Crocodile and Mihawk, when he sent money to a man’s dying family. The Roger Pirates still think well of Buggy.

We can’t really say why Rayleigh left, he’s also a mystery when it comes to his motivations and thoughts. Buggy leaving was the right decision anyways, you can’t be the subordinate to someone else if you have conflict with them and don’t agree with their goals. Look at what happened with Usopp and Luffy, that kind of conflict tears the crew apart and places a burden on the Captain. Buggy leaving was the best decision for both of them. Otherwise Shanks would’ve been like Luffy and prioritized his friend over his role as Captain. Buggy would’ve been a bad friend and bad crewmate had he joined Shanks and disrespected him as Captain and duelled him, but he never joined, they stayed apart as two fellow Captains on different paths.

The business of pirates is a lot like the mafia or criminal gangs, you have to hold your own and protect your reputation. I know some fans were shocked that Shanks’ crew blew up Bartolomeo’s crew even when he displayed such loyalty to Luffy. That’s just how the business of pirates is. 

I think it’s important to consider Shuggy in the context of the One Piece story, that’s where the authorial intent is. Especially for Shanks who still has many mysterious motivations and subtle readings to his character. Buggy acts like a regular pirate, and his attitude towards Shanks has constantly been regarded as petty beef between close friends. Amongst the many over-exaggerated character dynamics in One Piece, it’s not meant to be harmful, even outside of the author’s intent it just seems like a typical close relationship between two guys, and they’re extremely chummy for two enemy pirate Captains. Even Kinemon and his wife’s story was more ‘toxic’, he constantly stole money from her and he gambled it away and she paid off his debts while he was ungrateful. So many relationships use bickering and nagging as a way to signify closeness. Compared to canon couples the level of ‘harmful’ Buggy was towards Shanks wasn’t even that bad. You just seem extremely biased towards Buggy as if he’s a real person without understanding the common tropes utilized in the story and that he’s meant to be shown as someone important to and liked by Shanks. You say Shanks’ feelings are important, but Buggy’s feelings are also important since his dreams and desires have been given such spotlight as one of the Four Emperors. There is more to Buggy and he’s not just a harmful presence, his feelings have been given meaning and validation in the story.

I can understand if you just dislike Buggy on his own, nobody has to like a character, but tagging your hate about how harmful Buggy is while acting like you’re in a parasocial relationship with Shanks and policing others on the ship, you’re being completely irrational. 

I’m trying to explain why the dynamic exists. To us, we already know Shanks’ life is cool and admirable, but for Buggy that’s not what he wanted, while Shanks did want Buggy with him. If Buggy is so worthless in your eyes, then leaving was him doing what’s best for Shanks, despite Shanks’ wishes. Shanks loves his friends and loved ones more than anything, nothing can compare to that, you should know that as a fan. It’s not Buggy specifically, it’s any one of Shanks’ friends. If Yasopp suddenly left the crew to go back home, it would also be like Shanks lost someone precious, Yasopp is precious to him. That’s just Shanks’ character, his friends are his most precious treasure.

I knew you’d bring up Usopp since you’re not understanding the story. Usopp joined the crew and accepted Luffy as his Captain, then he belittled Luffy’s authority and challenged him to a duel to win the Going Merry as its Captain. When he tried to beat up Luffy and lost he even got pitied by being given the ship. Luffy not chasing after him wasn’t a matter of personal feelings, it was his responsibility as Captain and for their pride as pirates, and even then afterwards Luffy eagerly wanted to get Usopp back without apologies needed, but Zoro was the one who stopped him and couldn’t ignore the duel with the Captain and demanded he apologize. It’s a completely different situation from Buggy who turned down Shanks before he could accept him as his Captain. If even Luffy wanted to go after Usopp after the major disrespect and conflict he caused, of course Shanks would wish he could go after Buggy. I don’t think Buggy is particularly precious, but he is an important enough friend to Shanks for him to be that way.

Maybe Shanks will be revealed to be whatever you think he is, but we can’t be completely sure that’s what’s going on with him. He sure does seem like a good sacrificing hero. It’s more about how you thinks Shanks gets utterly wronged by the slightest offense because he’s some holy suffering figure, and that restricts your ability to see him as a fully fledged person. I think in ships and stories people prefer to think of Shanks as a human who is flawed and can be made fun of like other characters and not make everything about how great and noble of a sacrifice Shanks is. So fandom tends to blow up flaws because we see so little of him, like him being a careless drunk or giant baby, but that’s a general fandom issue. We know Shanks is cool, strong, goodlooking, most fans know that Buggy can’t match up to him, but to his close friends he can just be a normal guy without the pressure. Everyone probably worships or acts careful around an Emperor, so it’s more precious when someone treats him like a casual friend. In a relationship there has to be a reason why Shanks likes Buggy, he must love Buggy because he treats him like he did when they were kids. That’s a very possible interpretation that has nothing to do with toxicity.

Oh yeah, that dastardly kid. How dare he eat a fake devil fruit and keep a treasure map he found from an enemy pirate? The crew freely gave that fruit away for anyone to eat, and yeah, he’s a pirate who stole a map from an enemy. Maybe it’s just me, but in this story where the characters literally commit many crimes, a kid stealing on a pirate ship is not that bad. This is the same crew that was going to disband a year later anyways and leave Shanks and Buggy to fend for themselves.

There’s a difference between admitting a character is bad and what you’re doing. You talk about Buggy as if everything about him is an atrocity towards Shanks, and that everybody else has to feel the same. At most, it’s likely that Buggy is just meant to be greedy and dumb but harmless. Zosan or Shuggy, they are pretty similar in that they’ve both got a dynamic as naturally opposing forces, they both misunderstand each other and don’t fit over their differences. It’s not that Shuggy can’t be toxic or angsty, it’s literally filled with tons of angst content and messy exes content, but it’s not all because Buggy is the worst friend and undeserving which is how you make it out to be. It’s as if someone demanded reformation from Zosan fans for having Zoro loving on Sanji when it should be Sanji redeeming himself in Zoro’s eyes for his sexual harassment and for leaving the crew and Sanji should be asking for forgiveness from Zoro for beating up the Captain he gave everything for.

Shanks swooning over his lover is literally in every Shanks ship and Shanks x reader and Shanks x oc. Shanks being written as a sad and mentally unwell man is not that common anywhere. You literally just said that you think Shanks would be a simp in any ship, so every Shanks shipper is guilty of this. A lot of Shuggy content is when they’re younger too when Shanks didn’t have those problems, so you’re just saying things that other Shanks ships are more guilty of as they’re ‘pretending a troubled Shanks has a clear mind and being all lovey dovey’. I actually think then there’s too much Shanks and Luffy content that erases Shanks’ troubles over Uta and not enough Shanks and Uta content. Shanks might be depressed, but he’s still gonna try to have a positive mindset and maintain his old personality. If anything, Shuggy shippers are the only shippers who act like Shanks is flawed and unwell and copes badly, thus the jokes of he doesn’t wash and drinks too much. He isn’t alright because he misses Uta and Buggy. So shouldn’t you like Shuggy shippers because of this? Outside of Shuggy, people say Shanks is a whore who sleeps around and he has too many kids he abandons and neglects. But Shuggy shippers saying Shanks misses and longs for Buggy fits right into your characterization of him as a sad man who holds in his feelings.

I do agree Shanks has inner struggles going on. I think the ship doesn’t worsen or cheapen his struggles any more than others. Plenty of characters made sacrifices, they are both pirates and grown men, I very much doubt we’re supposed to clutch our pearls over people not treating him delicately. You’re too focused on characters not having the proper attitude when that’s just a typical friendship in One Piece. We don’t even have the whole picture of Shanks’ character and his plans. I’m not even saying I understand Shanks completely, but that’s why there’s gonna be different interpretations. He can have issues and still show love and happiness like many people do, he doesn’t have to be sulking and brooding all the time. Even in the middle of Marineford when Ace was dead a few meters away, Shanks was smiling at Buggy and happy to see him. So doesn’t that mean Shanks’ mood got lifted just because of Buggy? But all you keep saying is Buggy harmful, Shanks the victim in their toxic relationship. Plenty of fans have biases and they freely admit that and just have fun with it. You can’t even admit you have a bias, it hinders your ability to read correctly. The author certainly doesn’t care if fans are loving Buggy too much and not focusing enough on the problems he brings to a relationship.

There are are countless metaphors, you could’ve used the one about cattle. We’re talking about petty hate, comparing that to speaking out against colonizers isn’t even anywhere near the same topic nor the same level and I prefer not to stoop to that.

Dude. This isn't about canon one piece. Obviously in canon one piece they don't have a toxic relationship. They aren't even near eachother. This was never about canon one piece. Never. You keep bringing up canon one piece and their relationship there to "disprove" me when it was never about that. It was about Shuggy. Nor did i say Shanks isnt a grown man. He is. Though you are downplaying his sacrifice as "well something pirates just do" like every pirate out there would give an arm to save a kid. Plus, Shanks wasnt even the one to take the initiative to shoot down Bart, it was Yassop. Shanks was ready to just let it slide for Luffy, but Yasopp took initiative to remind Shanks that there needs to be consequences. Also about you "Knowing i would bring up Usopp" yeah obviously. That moment is the closest gotten to what Shanks and Buggy have gone through, theres no 1 to 1. I don't know why you're using that as a "gotcha". I kept using your points and using one piece moments to argue against it but now that I have you're just bringing up their canon relationships when it hardly matter because they don't itneract. Anyone would react the way Shanks did when he saw Buggy, if i saw a childhood bully I'd react the same, its just someone familiar and like you said they were children so the bickering didn't matter it was just bickering. Of course Shanks isnt some helpless guy in canon, no shit. I wasn't talking about canon, I was talking about the popular and normalized Shuggy relationship. Like 85% of this is trying to defend Buggy and Shanks's relationship in canon saying it isn't toxic 10% of it actual argument and the other 5% is bringing up that damn metaphor again. Your argument with Zosan isn't even applicable because my while point in bringing up Zosan previously is that they're not toxic, just have some elements of argument. Yet they are more aware of that than Shuggy shippers and the toxification of their ship. Genuinely I want you to take away the percentages of this where you bring up things that don't matter because so many of your arguments is bringing up their canon relationship when they hardly even have one and I was going off of how they interact and how the Shuggy media uses it to paint Shanks as an infant that can't defend himself. Its not me saying that, i'm going off of them. As for my "parasocial relationship" what a way to put it just because I don't like Shanks being used as an accessory.

So honestly if you want a proper reply to this "argument" you need to write something bringing up SHUGGY. Because right now I was using the Shuggy basis and bringing up canon to show both of their psyches and how it would work in a relationship like that, using the Shuggy dynamic as a mold. What you're doing is bringing up the canon relationship and then trying to use that to "debunk" me saying that they have a toxic relationship in canon when the only time i said that was that Buggy was a bad friend and at worst abusive. You said you were a "Shanks fan" but this is really reading as you're just a Shuggy fan that likes Shanks and how he is a cute little puppy simp in Shuggy despite the only way he would be like that when Buggy would treat him how its popularized is if there was a toxic dynamic, again, me using Shuggy as the mold, not the canon current relationship. There hardly is one. Im not even gonna tag this one Shuggy because there is nothing Shuggy about your reply to me, you were just bringing up the canon as a mold and "gotcha"ing me because Luffy doesn't have a 1 to 1 Buggy reference and that my metaphor was too crazy for you.