I'm Also Ace, So I Wouldn't Notice Sexualization As Much As Someone With A Sex Drive Probably Would.

Okay, it's not that I hate Rainbow High. It's just that...who thought "future influencer" was a good career goal to give a teenage girl?!

Especially in a franchise geared towards children?

There are so many stories about what's wrong with influencers that I wouldn't make that a goal at all.

There are so many other things you can do with a Digital Media focus than influencer.

Or, if they didn't want to keep that, Violet has won at least one award for her photography.

Or, as we learn later, she used to paint.

Either of those would be acceptable.

Far better than influencer, the most unhealthy and toxic lifestyle you could pick for a Digital Media focus.

And they think one of their main characters should have that as a career goal.

Good grief.

I’ll agree that is usually Ron who is a more dynamic character and he is usually the one one who seems to put more effort/is more invested into their relationship, (but this can be easily explained by S4 focusing more on him) but a lot of the things you are complaining about are just a result of judging a cartoon by real world standard and taking it far too seriously.

All of the points you brought up were just scenes that are meant to establish the plot of the episodes or show the changes the characters were going through, like the coupon scene was to establish Kim and Ron needed jobs.

And Kim expressing she wanted something different for their next date isn’t bad, she is communicating her needs and that’s a good trait in any relationship.

I'm aware they're scenes that were brought up to establish plot.

What's your point?

Maybe I am taking a cartoon too seriously, but that's my perogative.

If it bothers you, you don't have to follow me or see my posts. I'm not going to force you, or even hate you if you decide that my blog is not something you'd like to see regularly.

It's not for everybody, and I don't blame people who decide this isn't for them.

Yes, Kim expressing she wanted something different for their next date is good. My biggest complaint, and that's on me for not making it clear, is that when Ron did provide her with something new, she pouted and moped.

At a ceremony Ron's dad was being honored at.

It might not have been the most exciting thing ever, and I could understand the disappointment, but for an almost-adult, pouting and moping is kind of immature behavior.

Her sarcastic comment of "Yep, real exciting" also wasn't necessary.

Ultimately, it's not bad the she wants something new, it's bad that she doesn't offer specific ideas but complains about what Ron arranged anyways.

I understand that most of what I complain about is meant to establish the plot of the episode. I just think there were better ways to do that.

The coupon scene: there could have been other ways of establishing Kim and Ron wanting and/or needing jobs.

For example:

They're seniors who want a bit more independence and spending money than their allowances can provide.

Kim's saving up for a car and Ron's saving up for a new scooter.

They're both hoping to put extra money in their college funds.

Kim might want new clothes and Ron might want a new gaming system.

Kim wanted the employee discount at Club Banana and Ron wanted the employee discount at the places he applied to.

Any combination of the above.

There are definitely other scenarios in which they'd want and/or need jobs.

Kim complaining about Ron using coupons for their dates, despite not financially contributing to them herself, didn't have to be one of them.

Lying is NOT a Superpower

Obviously, there are a lot of things I hate about Lila as a character, if she can even be called that.

But, I want to talk about how others treated her.

"Chameleon" is Lila's second appearance in the series. In this one, Marinette wants to warn her friends that Lila is a liar and manipulative, and Adrien thinks they shouldn't. For some reason.

When he apologizes later, Marinette doesn't get mad. She reassures him that he did nothing wrong, even though he did.

Marinette tries several times throughout the series to convince people, mostly Alya, that Lila is lying, but Alya chalks it up to jealousy about Lila having a crush on Adrien.

When Lila's lies are revealed, Alya apologizes and berates herself for being gullible. Marinette reassures her by claiming lying is it's own superpower.

No, lying is not a superpower. Anyone can do it.

Lila's lies aren't even convincing if you think about them for a few seconds.

Lila claimed to know Prince Ali. Too bad they don't have a classmate who also knows Prince Ali and gets along with him really well. Too bad she wouldn't be able to write him a letter or call to confirm he knows Lila. (Rose)

She claimed Jagged Stone wrote a song about her and that she saved a kitten. Too bad they don't have multiple classmates who's mom worked with Jagged Stone and can confirm he hasn't had a cat in decades. Or at least know all of his songs well enough to realize none of them are about Lila. (Luka and Juleka)

She claimed Ladybug saved her life and that they're best friends. Too bad the journalist of the group didn't even think about that before posting it. Or decided to confirm with Ladybug first. (Alya)

She claimed she once saw a guy in India get his eye gouged out by a napkin. Too bad no one's smart enough to point out how that's impossible. (Max)

She claimed to get injured from Marinette pushing her down the stairs. Too bad no one took her to a doctor to get the injury treated.

Lying isn't a superpower. Most of Lila's lies come apart if you think about them.

Heck, Luka and Juleka get to hang out with Jagged later in the series, so the fact that they never found out Lila was lying is ridiculous.

The real superpower is how dumb everyone acts around Lila. Not one person is able to see through Lila's lies, even when they're obvious.

And if you have to dumb down your cast for the villain to succeed, they're not a good villain.

Worst of all, no one is being held accountable for it.

The message here is that you're supposed to just forgive people for blindly following a liar over you.

No, scratch that, you're supposed to just forgive people for accusing you of being a jealous liar when you try to warn them.

You certainly shouldn't point out how they blindly trusted her when they could've easily disproven her lies.

You shouldn't tell them how horrible and alone you've felt because everyone chose to believe the liar over you.

And it is a choice.

Lila states in "Chameleon" that no one thinks she's lying because they like what she has to say. That they don't want her to be lying.

Maybe not a conscious choice at first, but when Alya chooses to say Marinette's lying about Lila because of jealousy instead of believing her best friend, it became a conscious choice.

When your friends apologize and beg forgiveness for something they've done wrong, you're supposed to smile and assure them they did nothing wrong.

Your feelings here don't matter.

It's not their fault.

Lying is a superpower.

Don't you think you are missing the point? Because of how often Ron is overlooked whenever he gets any ounce of attention, it usually goes to his head. I think the chapter focused on this flaw not to make the conflict as one-sided on kim's end. Ron was being a bit patrionizing through the episode. So, Ron acknowladging it was the Kim factor, despite being Ron who defeated the villain showcase his character growth and is a sign of humilty and modesty.

Is one of my favorite moments of his character, I like how supportive and kind he is to Kim. Maybe what was missing was Kim acknowladging Ron more often? how would you've liked to see the episode/ending play out? What would you change?

I wouldn't say I'm missing the point. I'd say I'm saying it's stupid. Huge difference.

Furthermore, as I have rewatched the series recently, I can confidently say that, attention does not, actually, go to Ron's head when he receives it.

(And even if it did, that's not an excuse to constantly beat on the guy's self-esteem when even the anon asking this question admits he's constantly over looked.)

At this point in time, "Ron Millionaire" hasn't happened yet, so Kim's only examples would be "Bueno Nacho", "The New Ron", and "Two to Tutor", and in none of those did Ron get a big head.

(But if you're someone who's threatened by other people being successful and confident, it's the same thing.)

In "Bueno Nacho", Ron invented the Naco and got the job as the boss because of it. Being good at his job and actually enjoying it doesn't mean it went to his head, nor was asking Kim to do the job she originally signed them up for.

In "The New Ron", Ron started caring about fashion and hair-care, but this still doesn't mean he had an ego problem.

In "Two to Tutor", Ron was successful, popular, and confident because of his baking skills, and that still doesn't mean he had an ego problem.

Know why? Because he was enjoying the positive attention without putting down others or making fun of them.

Was Ron a little rude in this episode? Yes. But to say it's a recurring problem when it provably isn't shows more about Kim than Ron.

Namely that, to Kim, it doesn't matter if Ron actually has an ego problem or is just confident, it's unacceptable for Ron to be anything but her insecure, bumbling sidekick.

(Seriously, Kim is allowed to say she can do anything, but Ron isn't allowed to say he's good at one thing? How is that a fair and equal relationship?)

It's also worth mentioning that, yes, Ron is provably important to Kim's success, because she has failed any mission she tries to do alone.

Ron's already humble and modest, to the point of insecurity and self-deprecation. He really didn't need to be told, again, that he's nothing special.

How would I have liked this to go? Easy:

It starts out pretty much the same, but, at some point, Kim is watching feeds of her missions and sees, from an outside perspective, how important Ron actually is to her success.

*cue dawning look of realization*

At the end, after Gemini is defeated, we get an exchange like this:

Kim: "I was so upset about this whole Ron-factor thing at first, but, after watching some surveillance videos, I realized they're right."

Ron and Rufus: "Huh?!"

Kim: "I'm really good at the action stuff, but your quick-thinking and resourcefulness has been more helpful than I realized. I'm sorry I never acknowledged that before."

Ron: "Thanks, KP. That means a lot. Sorry I was kind of rude earlier. Friends?"

Kim: "The best."

*hug*

Ron: "But, for the record, it's not you or me, it's us. We're a team. It's not about a Kim Factor or a Ron Factor, it's us together that makes it work."

Dr. Director: "Hmm...perhaps we should spend time studying both of you."

I thought he we would see more of this on So the Drama, but again the movie focused more on Ron than on Kim

Now, I’m a huge KimRon shipper, I’ve made whole analysis, gifsets and even the occasional fanart. I love that paring.

But I hate how Kim and Ron got together in the movie, the Kim from so the drama seemed like the one from Season one, when the Kim from season 2 and 3 was very clearly in love with him the one of the movie….. how do I say this!

Alright there are still little scenes like the one where Kim complains about not wanting to go with a friend-friend to the Prom, how a “stinky boyfriend” would be nice for a change while she keeps looking at Ron.

There’s the scenes where Kim looks lovingly to couples passing by, when Ron approaches her and tells him he knows the reason she is looks down lately, Kim whole mood changed and she looks up, hopefully? Expectantly? The way I see it Kim very clearly was expecting him to ask her to the dance right there, but we all know that’s not what happened. Not yet.

But then we also get scenes where Kim seemed completely against the idea or even embarrassed about the possibility of going up with him to the Prom. 2_5

Yeah, the movie doesn't really hold up when you look at it again 20 years later. But few things do, so it's not *entirely* their fault.

But we get a lot of Ron pining over Kim and only the barest hint that Kim might also be pining over Ron.

And honestly, even before the movie, Kim had moments of being embarrassed by Ron.

I have many posts that highlight the ways Kim's treated Ron unfairly throughout the show, but I'm going to assume you've read them already.

Kim Possible: Episode Reviews

I don’t intend to comment on every episode, just the ones I haven’t talked about yet or the ones I feel need to be given more in-depth discussion. Let’s begin:

“Tick-Tick-Tick” - First episode, not much to complain about here, but I do have one thing that irks me; the detention gang are never seen or mentioned again, with the exception of maybe Mike, as a guy who looks just like him is seen on the football team in a later episode. He is not addressed by name, however, so I’m not going to assume it’s Mike. The point of the episode was that Kim learns the detention gang are not all that bad, but then they’re never seen or mentioned again. They’re not even in the background. It kind of defeats the purpose of the lesson.

I also feel like this episode would have been a good chance to play into Kim’s “driven to excel” traits and have her hate the idea of detention because she’s afraid of how it will affect her future, and she learns one detention won’t ruin her future. You know, a reason for thinking detention is for losers, instead of just her being a cheerleader.

“Bueno Nacho” - I did mention in a previous post that I hate that Kim forged an application for Ron before ever talking to him about it. Honestly, they could’ve just had Kim entice Ron to take the job by mentioning some kind of benefits i.e. employee discount, one free meal while on shift. There was no reason for Kim to unilaterally make the decision, and she seems majorly controlling for doing so. Your protagonist’s mistakes should come from a lack of knowledge, not a lack of consideration. You can teach people to communicate, you can’t teach them to care.

“Attack of the Killer Bebes” - I wish the creators had delved more into Kim’s feelings. She thinks Ron being a cheerleader would be mortifying, and she hates the idea of him as the mascot. But we never learn why. There’s a line at the beginning that would indicate Kim just wanted something for herself, but the creators don’t expand on that. Instead, we get Kim just insulting Ron for the rest of the episode. It would have been more interesting if it was about Kim struggling to keep something for herself without Ron, and learning that even with Ron as the mascot, cheerleading will still always be her thing. Your protagonist should have deep thoughts and feelings that get explored, not just hinted at.

“The New Ron” - One of my most hated episodes for the way Kim treated Ron, but my rewrite would probably fix it. Ron agrees to a new haircut to appease Kim, and tries to like it but he’s miserable and he stays miserable. Kim learns she can be too pushy sometimes and needs to lay off, and Ron learns his best friend cares more about his feelings than his appearance, so it’s okay to say no to her. Your hero shouldn’t be causing harm to others just because she wants to; that’s not a hero, that’s a villain.

“Number One” - A few options for rewrites; Kim actually tries to prove she’s the better captain instead of just expecting Bonnie to fail on her own, or Bonnie stays captain and we get to explore how Kim handles not being in charge. Your character isn’t skilled and talented if she has everything handed to her instead of working for it.

Also, it would be nice if Will was actually competent, instead of taking credit for the mission. Give Kim an actual rival. Seriously, a highly-trained government agent isn’t on par with an amateur? It’s ridiculous. Your female protagonist isn’t good if you have to dumb down the world to make her shine.

“Sink or Swim” - Minor change; with how big Barkin is, and his military experience, he should’ve made more noise while being abducted. We could’ve had a shadow drag him off while he tells Kim to warn the others. That would’ve played into the horror movie parody quite nicely.

“Crush” - I feel like instead of Kim ignoring a call from Wade that was definitely important because Wade doesn’t make social calls, she should’ve just not gotten a call. I mean, how would Wade even know Ron was trapped in the closet anyways? Ron doesn’t have a Kimmunicator. It wouldn’t change much to be honest, and it also wouldn’t have Kim ignoring an urgent attempt at communication.

“October 31st” - Kim should take more precautions with the bracelet. Maybe it gets stuck to her wrist because the tweebs grab it and it gets stuck to her wrist in the ensuing fight. There’s also the issue of lying, but we could just have her nervous about spending time with Josh and having that be enough to set off the armor. That way, it’s basically the same plot, but without Kim being thoughtless, reckless, and deliberately misleading everyone she cares about.

“The Twin Factor” - Honestly, I would take out the whole “gag” about Kim using mind control on her brothers. The whole point of the episode is that mind control is wrong and bad, but the point gets muted when our hero is doing it to children. I’m not sure what gag I would replace it with, but nothing that jokes about mind control. I like that Kim’s parents were upset, but they should’ve been more upset. Outraged, even. And Kim should’ve faced actual consequences.

“Job Unfair” - I’m not sure this episode had a lesson. If it was meant to be “all jobs are important” then the lesson is pointless by having the “janitor” revealed to actually be a Canadian spy. Instead, we could have Kim decide to focus on her work-study anyways, and learn how to disable the weather machine by sheer coincidence, because the janitor is an actual janitor and not secretly a spy. As for Ron’s mentor, it could be revealed that the spy had been trying to get to Kim, but she was already taken by the janitor so he went to Ron instead.

“Grudge Match” - This episode had a scene where Ron mentions people might think he and Kim were on a date. Instead of using this as a moment to hint at Kim and Ron ending up together, Kim mocks and insults Ron for that statement. We could have Kim and Ron nervously discussing whether people think of them as a couple, before Kim (or Wade) brings them back to focus, but Kim mocking and insulting Ron for insinuating people might think they date is not a good way to hint at the endgame ship.

Also, I feel like instead of Kim “fudging” by telling Ron he might stand a chance with Zita, we should have her actually believe it could happen. This is a guy she supposedly develops romantic feelings for later, but instead of hinting at that, she apparently thinks he’s so much of a loser that even a girl none of them know anything about could do better.

“The Ron Factor” - I understand they had to change the ending of the episode because it was too sexist, but this episode chronologically takes place after “A Sitch in Time”, where we learn Ron is essential to Kim’s success (though no one remembers that timeline so I’ll cut them some slack there) and Ron defeated the villain this time. Not Kim, Ron. If they didn’t want it to seem like Ron was the secret to Kim’s success, they shouldn’t have made that a plot point of the movie, nor should they have Ron defeating the villain. Kim did almost nothing in this episode aside from telling Ron he was getting a big head (which he was) and complaining about GJ thinking Ron was the secret to her success (again, he was).

“Adventures in Rufus-Sitting” - I’ve talked about this episode before, so my rewrite is simple; have Kim take actual precautions with the microchip. We could still have Rufus accidentally eat it; maybe while looking for a snack he finds it and eats it. But Kim took no precautions with the top-secret microchip she was meant to guard, and that is seriously disappointing. If your female protagonist won’t take basic precautions with things she’s supposed to guard, she’s not a good guardian.

“Exchange” - When Kim decides she likes Hirotaka, she has Wade track his movements to arrange an “accidental” run-in with him to ask him out. She’s known him for less than a week and is already stalking him. It’s creepy and obsessive and this needs to not happen. Honestly, that whole scene could go like this; Kim returns from a mission, notices Hirotaka, panics, plays cool, decides to ask him out, continues as canon. If your female character is stalking her crush, it’s not funny, it’s creepy.

Interesting to note: Hirotaka looks a lot like Will Du’s original concept Ken Du.

“Queen Bebe” - Honestly, I do have complaints about this episode, and I’ve mentioned it in a previous post, but I’m not actually sure how I’d go about rewriting it. Kim’s inability to fulfill her obligations (that she volunteered for) is not only disappointing but also letting down her school. I can kind of understand her refusal to ask for help, especially from Bonnie, but at the very least, clubs and committees should be hesitant to let her join in the future because of this.

“Hidden Talent” - Not cool of Ron to sign Kim up for the talent show without talking to her about it first, but it definitely wasn’t cool of Kim to threaten Ron with physical violence over it. He might not have seemed afraid, but that doesn’t make it okay.

Honestly, it would be very in character for Kim to sign herself up because of anger and pride, so there was no need for Ron to do it.

“Return to Wannaweep” - Kim sabotages Bonnie, her own teammate, just because she wants a plastic stick painted gold. A stick she admits to only wanting so Bonnie can’t have it. Sure, Kim’s competitive. But this kind of competitiveness, sabotaging her own teammate to make herself stand out more, would get her kicked off the squad. Obviously, if they want Kim and Bonnie sabotaging each other, they should have Bonnie start it. Your heroine doesn’t get to be called a role model when she’s starting conflicts for her own personal interests.

Also, despite Gil having tried something evil before, Kim refuses to take any of Ron’s concerns about him seriously because she’s too preoccupied with her rivalry with Bonnie. A heroine ignoring potential danger because she doesn’t care is not a good heroine.

“Blush” - I can understand Kim wanting to go on a date with Josh, but he would’ve understood Kim needing to stay home for her own safety. She was at risk of literally disappearing.

“Oh Boyz” - Sure, everyone stopped liking the Oh Boyz, but the timing implies Kim stopped liking them specifically because Ron started liking them. I just feel like there’s too much of that in this show; Ron’s interests being “uncool” or “embarrassing”.

“Rewriting History” - This episode introduced interesting new layers to the characters and their relationships, except it didn’t because it was all a dream. I hate that. Honestly, I feel like the episode should have just ended with Kim saving Drakken and Shego and clearing her great-aunt’s name. No “it was all a dream” shenanigans.

“Showdown at the Crooked D” - Kim tricked Ron into going. He told her he wanted to laze about for the summer, she invited him to a place called The Lazy C, and then deliberately didn’t tell him until after they arrived and he had no way to back out that it was a working ranch. A lie by omission is still a lie. Your female hero shouldn’t be doing this to her friends.

"Emotion Sickness” - Another episode that could’ve hinted at Kim and Ron getting together, but instead Ron seemed uncomfortable with the whole idea. Nervous. Terrified. It didn’t seem like he wanted to be in a relationship with her. Having one character be uncomfortable with the idea of dating another is not a good way to hint at a ship.

"Bonding” - Mostly I hate that both Bonnie and Barkin were given character development, and then it’s gone for the rest of the series.

“Bad Boy” - Another episode to hint at a ship, and it didn’t do a good job. Having both characters be uncomfortable with the idea of dating each other doesn’t imply a ship either.

“Team Impossible” - As I mentioned, most of my frustration with this episode comes from the reason they gave for wanting Kim out of the business; profit. There are so many valid reasons, and Team Impossible could’ve been mentors. If you need to make the professionals incompetent for your character to stand out, your character isn’t good enough.

“And the Mole Rat Will Be CGI” - Honestly, my big issue here is that Kim, once again, is ignoring Ron’s feelings on something that will affect him.

“So The Drama” - I made a whole post about this, so I’ll be brief. Getting Kim and Ron together by introducing a “perfect” guy for Kim and then removing him as an option completely is lazy writing. I understand it was supposed to be the end of the series, but while we see a lot of Ron pining over Kim, we don’t see any of Kim possibly having feelings for Ron. The implication is that, if Eric were still an option, Kim and Ron wouldn’t be together. That’s not true love, that’s Ron being Kim’s rebound guy.

“The Big Job” - Kim complains about Ron using coupons to fund their dates, to high end expensive restaurants, but she never offers to pay. She is asking for more from Ron than he is able to give. And she, once again, has things literally handed to her. In this case, Monique literally gives her a job just so she could inspire Ron to get one.

“Fashion Victim” - I find it hard to believe Kim didn’t know she was risking Monique’s and Wade’s futures by trying to get them help her break the NDA Monique signed. She has worked on top-secret projects before; she’s definitely signed a few of those. Your heroine shouldn’t be risking others for her own gain.

“Grande Size Me” - The movie this episode was based off of has been proven to have been faked. This whole episode would need to be rewritten.

TW: This episode contains scenes that would be triggering for people with body image issues, eating disorders, or fears of Kaiju.

I did have more thoughts, but they felt too nitpicky. I tried to stick to the ones I had major problems with, and bolded the advice I would give on how to avoid some of those problems.

In my Unstoppables AU Brick and Tara are siblings, so I thought it'd be fun to edit Tara to have Brick's colors, though I kept her eyes their original color.

I think it's an interesting look, and it helps Tara look more distinct from Jessica, who is also a blue-eyed platinum blonde.

I don't own Tara, but I do own this picture, so please don't use it without my permission.

The most unbelievable thing about Disney's Descendants is that the princes and princesses, people who are known for being kind and compassionate, would be okay with literal children living on The Isle, despite knowing what things are like on The Isle, just because their parents are villains.

Like, I'll believe they decided to put their dangerous villains there to protect everyone.

(Not villains like LeFou and Smee though, because they're just not worth the trouble.)

But you expect me to believe that no one thought it wouldn't be fair to punish the kids for their parents' crimes? That people who are known for being kind thought this was fair?

Sorry, not buying it.

And it's not that they didn't know, because everyone knew the villains had kids, so they just, somehow, honestly thought this was a good idea.

But I don't believe it.

I understand that it has to be that way for plot reasons. My proposed change would be a very simple one:

They didn't know there were kids on The Isle.

They only found out shortly before Ben was going to be coronated, because Belle and Adam wanted to check on The Isle one more time before it became Ben's responsibility.

Thus, Ben immediately decides to invite some VKs to Auradon for a better life, but Belle and Adam are concerned that the VKs might be a lot like their parents. He agrees to only invite a few at first, but he's confident that they're not evil, just in terrible conditions.

The most frustrating thing about Kim is how she's immune to criticism. Her apologies are almost always met with the other person apologizing, even when they shouldn't have to.

"But Kim apologizes and learns her lesson! She grows and matures past those things! It's not fair to hold it against her forever!"

Does she? Let's review:

"Bueno Nacho" - Apologizes for getting mad at Ron for outshining her at the job. Not for forging an application for him or guilting him into taking the job in the first place.

Bonus: This is the first of Kim's apologies, and she consistently apologizes for the most minor transgression of the episode, ignoring all the other ones.

"Attack of the Killer Bebes" - Says she'll support Ron because he's her best friend, but doesn't actually apologize.

"The New Ron" - Apologizes for saying Ron needs a new haircut. Not for forcing him into one. Not for not caring how much he hated it. Not for stealing his hat. Not for humiliating him. Tries to throw in a lesson at the end that it's what's on the inside that counts, ignoring that fact that she was the one who forced him to change in the first place.

Bonus: Once again, Kim only apologizes for the most minor transgression.

Bonus+: There's a scene where Kim gets mad at Ron for "abandoning" Rufus, but, having watched the episode recently, I can say that's not what happened; Ron, despite not having pockets, still carried Rufus around with him, Rufus wandered off on his own. Ron probably wasn't too worried because Rufus does that frequently. And he does gently chastise Rufus for wandering off anyways. Thus, Kim's anger at Ron was not justified, and likely just because she was looking for an excuse.

"Coach Possible" - Never actually apologizes for driving her brothers' soccer team so hard they cry. Doesn't apologize, but does get fired from a job she didn't want in the first place, and mopes about it.

"October 31st" - Doesn't apologize for the lying or putting other people in danger. Doesn't acknowledge that she was putting other people in danger.

Bonus: How would Monique's family react to finding out one of Monique's party guests destroyed their garage door? Probably not happy, and banning Kim from their property until she can pay off the replacement wouldn't seem unreasonable.

Bonus+: I doubt the people asking Kim to retrieve the Centurion Project would've been happy to find out how it got stuck to her in the first place. I imagine Kim would be getting much fewer retrieval jobs after that.

"The Twin Factor" - Doesn't apologize for using mind control on her brothers. Tries to justify it and, though her parents clearly disapprove, isn't punished for it.

"The Ron Factor" - This would have been a great episode about Kim learning she takes Ron for granted and apologizing, but instead, despite doing practically nothing in this episode, she still has credit handed to her.

Bonus: The Global Justice scientists said the results of their study into "The Ron Factor" were complete and that Ron was a non-factor, but there's a movie about how Ron is vital to Kim's success, so clearly this is false. Perhaps they meant they couldn't replicate it?

"Adventures in Rufus-Sitting" - Lies to Ron about how it went watching Rufus. Doesn't apologize for not taking it seriously. Doesn't apologize for accidentally endangering Rufus. Just lies to him about how it went.

Bonus: My sister has mentioned to me that how someone treats a pet says a lot about how they view the pet's owner. So Kim's treatment of Rufus says a lot about her opinion of Ron.

"Return to Wannaweep" - Doesn't apologize for not taking Ron's concerns seriously or sabotaging Bonnie. Even Dr. Lurkin apologizes for not taking Ron's concerns seriously. And then Ron tries to give a lesson about how if Bonnie and Kim weren't so busy competing with each other, one of them could have won the Spirit Stick, as though Kim and Bonnie are equally to blame for it.

Bonus: Someone who hasn't known Ron as long as Kim has, has enough respect for Ron to apologize to him, when Kim consistently fails to do so.

"Bonding" - Apologizes to Bonnie for an unintentional comment about Bonnie's weight, quicker than she's ever apologized to Ron, and more sincerely as well.

Bonus: Despite not actually intending to insult Bonnie, Kim still has enough respect for her to apologize. More than she usually does for Ron, her "best friend".

"Fashion Victim" - Apologizes to Monique for being jealous, but not the things she did that could have cost Monique her future in the fashion industry.

Bonus: If Monique was hassling Kim to break an NDA and trying to get a tech guy to find a loophole so she could, would we think Monique should be forgiven so easily?

And consistently doesn't apologize to Ron for dismissing his fears, concerns, and feelings.

So, Kim apologizing to Ron is very rare, almost non-existent.

It's been mentioned to me that some relationships don't require explicit apologies or that love means never having to say you're sorry.

I say that's stupid.

If you care about someone, and you hurt them, you should want to apologize and make things right. Even if it seems like you don't need to say it, you should still show you're remorseful in some way.

And Kim doesn't.

Do you think people cling on too much to Adrien's high road advice as a reason to salt on him?

Yes, especially when there are plenty of other reasons to salt him that have previously been ignored. But to that end, it DOES serve as the final straw for people after a SERIES of problems that had previously gone unaddressed.

Much like many aspects of the show, Adrien has displayed problematic behaviors that have been overlooked and waved off in the earlier seasons. This is likely or especially due to the way how in each and every incident, Adrien was narratively shown to be correct. In his stance. In his choices. In his behaviors. He was always right. It doesn't matter if he shouldn't be, because he is.

Now unless you're a hater or anti or salter or whatever negative name people tend to get for not liking a story as it's presented, readers and watchers tend to follow along with the narrative as it presents things and how it presents things. It's a common setup in any story. Protagonist Centered Morality, I feel framed best by Susan in the Discord series:

Susan: ...and then Jack chopped down the beanstalk, adding murder and ecological vandalism to the theft, enticement and trespass charges already mentioned, but he got away with it and lived happily ever after without so much as a guilty twinge about what he had done. Which proves that you can be excused anything if you're a hero, because no one asks inconvenient questions.

Pretty much this. Most people will follow what the narrative says because it's the narrative. If the narrative wants you to focus on Marinette being embarrassed, you're going to focus on how much she's cringe. And if the narrative wants you to view Adrien as a perfect sunshine boy who never does anything wrong, anything he does is going to be framed through that lens and it's difficult to break from that view and call out the times when he is wrong. Not unless he does something particularly severe.

It should be noted that outside of Chameleon, Adrien had, among other things: lied to his partner, caused someone to get akumatized and had his partner take the blame, was messing around during life-threatening and city-threatening situations, did nothing as Chloe tormented people right in front of him, DEFENDED Chloe after she tormented people right in front of him, bailed on an event with friends to set up a date with someone who said she had other plans and then got mad at HER for it, tried to flirt or confess in the middle of an active crisis which took necessary attention away from said crisis, caused himself AND his partner to get hit by akuma powers and needlessly be taken out of commission.

And yet people could mostly overlook these instances. They weren't his fault. Chloe is his friend. Marinette is worse. He's just a kid. He has a tragic backstory. So on and so forth. Easy to overlook. Easy to ignore in favor of the Sunshine Boy setup people were given and want to believe in.

But there were three major instances that really grabbed people's attention and stayed:

His attitude in Frozer. It probably wouldn't have been so bad except this rejection already happened in Glaciator, where he was supposed to have learned a lesson and accepted just being Ladybug's friend and now apparently didn't, despite it happening earlier that very season. Then in response, he decides to date Kagami as a rebound, drags Marinette with him on his date (without realizing how he's asking his friend to be a third wheel on a DATE) and focuses on her when he's supposed to be with Kagami, throws another tantrum in the middle of an akuma fight and refuses to work with his partner when the city is literally frozen, and requires Ladybug to apologize to him for hurting his feelings before he finally working with her. Again. But okay, he's a teenage boy in love. Not used to rejection and got his feelings hurt. Lovesquare is endgame so of course it'll work out anyway, so it's not like this bump in the road is really going to matter long term so we shouldn't hold it against him. Fine. Dumb, but fine. We've forgiven it in other shows and other poorly done teen romances, we can forgive it here.

His behavior in Syren in which he demanded to know secrets from people when the secrets were not theirs to tell him, and went so far as to attempt to blackmail his kwami (which was funny) and threaten to quit and abandon the Ring that the big bad is after while the city is flooded and people were trying to not drown (which was decidedly less humorous). But it was played for wholesome when Plagg reassured him and he got what he wanted by Fu revealed himself even if Adrien did nothing to actually show he earned it, so all's well that ends well, I guess? And people could justify it because "they're partners" and "part of a team" and "she should trust him" and "it's not fair he's the only one left out of the loop" and "he has a right to know" and just general "Fu is an idiot" (which is admittedly hard to argue). So people were disgruntled, but most were willing to overlook it.

His holier than thou lecture to Marinette in Maledictator over everyone being happy Chloe was leaving. When all Marinette was doing at the time was watching everyone else have fun. When Adrien specifically guilted Marinette and not any of the other actual partiers involved who were literally throwing a party over his friend leaving and probably should have warranted a lecture more than the girl just standing there. When the girl in question was also Chloe's main target and out of everyone had valid reasons to be happy that her bully won't be around to bully her anymore. When Adrien himself has historically been present to witness Marinette being targeted including twice he witnessed Chloe attempt to steal from Marinette, once he witnessed her try to blackmail Marinette, and numerous other times when she actively caused harm to Marinette and others. When Adrien then proceeded to sit in a corner and pout rather than do anything else or just leave if the party really bothered him. When Adrien, if he really cared so damn much, could have gone after Chloe himself! Or y'know...have stood up for Chloe earlier when she got upset in the first place. But fine, okay, Chloe is his childhood friend. So maybe he's just being biased and oblivious to the fact that his "friend" is a horrible person. But people can excuse and justify it in that they are friends and friends support each other, and the longer someone is friends with someone else, the harder it is to break from them. And that Marinette was probably just the target of his lecture because she was the one there in the moment (and the only one who would listen without arguing). And her calling Chloe useless was "mean" despite it being quite frankly the least of what she could have said about her in the moment (coughcough theft cough blackmail cough punished the entire school cough TRIED TO CRASH A TRAIN AND NEARLY KILLED HER AND HER PARENTS COUGH-FREAKINGCOUGH). Fine. Childhood friend means Adrien supports her in all her horrible and even deadly actions. Frustrating, but again, able to be explained and you can see where he's coming from.

These are all things that definitely got Adrien some side eye at best and some detractors at worst.

BUT if you really think about it, all of these examples are objectively worse than his lecture to Marinette in Chameleon. Not accepting being told "no" and continuing to chase a girl who isn't that in to him (while leading on another). Putting lives at risk over personal wants that could quite honestly wait until AFTER the crisis is over. Defending someone who is harmful and guilt tripping the victims. Compared to those, telling someone to leave a liar to their lying seems relatively minor.

So why this? Why here? Why is it Chameleon that has people saying enough is enough? Why is it this episode that is causing the sunshine boy to be so tarnished and the subject of salt in fan fiction?

Because this is the time when it couldn't be rationalized. There wasn't even a valid sensible canon-based reason for his stance. The arguments that Adrien "knew confronting her wouldn't work" or that he "handled her like paparazzi" or that he "knew Marinette previously failed when she tried" (even though he wasn't there and didn't know) or that he "didn't think anyone would believe him" don't come from canon. Those were fan arguments made after the fact to justify him after the base was broken and the outcry became too much to ignore.

This case didn't have any of the ties or rationales of the previous incidents. Adrien wasn't defending himself or his place in a partnership. He wasn't fighting for his love or his dream or an outcome he wanted and that we all knew was coming. He wasn't defending a friend like he did with Chloe—I mean, it's pretty evident he doesn't even really know or like Lila at this point, and for all intents and purposes, this is apparently only the second day he actually had any interaction with her. There was no notable reason Adrien really had for why he essentially chose to protect Lila over literally anyone else as she wasn't a friend and it wasn't in his interests to protect her from a consequence that wouldn't hurt her short term as much as it would likely harm everyone else long term.

And yet, he still defended her and her freedom to lie. Over Marinette. Over Ladybug. Over his friends. Over any sense of right and wrong he seems to have no problem throwing around when it comes to Marinette/Ladybug. Which seems like he targets her 9 times out of 10 compared to pretty much anyone else by this point. So it's little wonder then that people who didn't already hate the lovesquare because of the cringe factor from Marinette started to hate it for being incredibly unhealthy given that their relatively limited interactions tend to involve him lecturing her for failing to live up to his double standards that only seem to apply to her in any given situation.

This incident by itself doesn't seem like much, but when looked at as part of the series as a whole, it's when people couldn't keep overlooking this trend. Where he seems to admonish the wrong person. Where he acts like a mouthpiece rather than a person. Acts like a brat but is treated as though he has no accountability in the situation he causes. Where he is wrong but no one and certainly not the narrative acknowledges it (not until season five and two seasons later when it doesn't matter and he's still not the one facing consequences for it).

And it's not like he actually follows the stances he himself promotes. In Chameleon, canon presents him with this idealistic stance that Lila could change if given a chance, except he doesn't give her a chance. He doesn't push her to be a better person. He doesn't support her to be the better person he insisted to Marinette she could be. He also doesn't do anything or warn anyone when she keeps lying and actively harms the people he says he cares about. He doesn't do anything one way or the other other than some lackluster encouragement to stop lying and a warning that goes nowhere. It just further gives credit to the argument that Adrien either simply doesn't care about other people, or that he doesn't care for Marinette specifically. Neither is conducive to the lovesquare or the increasingly tarnished view of the "sunshine boy".

And it could have worked. Canonically and intrinsically to his character. His idealism and trust in the wrong person comes back to bite him. He learns and grows from it. Except that, much like with nearly everything he does in canon, Chameleon set it up that Adrien was the writers' mouthpiece and thus was not "wrong". I'll grant that they did have him admit it and apologize to Marinette for it two seasons later, but it is pretty evident that during Chameleon, they intended his lecture to be right, with no foreshadowing and no implication otherwise. And I'm fairly certain they only backtracked and had him do that much because of the amount of fan outrage over the episode.

So yes, I think his lecture in Chameleon was really a final straw since unlike Chloe, Adrien has NO relationship with Lila to justify his defense of her. Especially when the argument is in favor of letting her lie to the people he's supposed to care about. That combined with how jarring it was how most of the class just sided with Lila over the seat issue in the first place, and I think people were less inclined to just ignore the problems in the episode specifically and with the series as a whole as they were compared to the first and second seasons. Not just with Adrien, as we see that Alya also started getting more callout and salt since then as well as more retrospective scrutiny over her behavior in earlier seasons.

But yeah...Chameleon was where things seemed to take a 180, so it's bound to be the deciding episode and deciding incident that sticks out in people's minds with these characters. That's probably why it ends up the go-to for salt and complaints on the characters involved instead of any of the other incidents that would arguably warrant it more.