Where Do You Think The Belief That Ron Isn’t Good Enough For Kim Comes From? Do You Agree With That

Pick One: Magical Girl Show or Rom-com. You cannot be both.

Early in season four we get the episode Gang of Secrets. An episode that ends with Marinette outing her secret identity to Alya. A touching moment that sparked outrage across the fandom because it meant that Marinette had made the choice to reveal her identity to her best friend while keeping her hero partner in the dark.

This choice spat in the face of the exceptions that many fans had for the series. Thousands of pre-season-four fanfics feature moments where Ladybug and Chat Noir promise each other that they'll be the first to know each other's identities. After the Alya reveal, scores of fanfics were written to salt on Marinette's choice to tell the "wrong" person.

Most of these fics feature a betrayed Chat Noir quitting or otherwise punishing Ladybug for breaking their promise to be each other's first, thereby destroying his faith in their partnership. But that promise was never made on screen. It only existed in the realms of fanfic and, when Chat Noir finally found out in canon, his reaction was largely neutral. He never once blamed Ladybug for her choice or pushed for a reveal or even asked for the right to tell one of his friends.

So what happened here? Why did the fans have such wildly unrealistic expectations of canon? Were their expectations even unrealistic or did canon betray them? The answer to that is not as straight forward as you might think because it all comes back to one of Miraculous' many, many, many writing problems: Miraculous is trying to be both a Magical Girl Show and a romantic comedy, but those are not genres that mesh. You can only be one (or you can be a third thing that we'll get to at the end as it's the easiest way to fix this mess, but I want to mostly focus on where the anger is coming from and why the writing is to blame.)

To discuss this mismatch, we're going to do something that breaks my heart and talk about some of Origins flaws. While I love that episode and unironically refer to it as the best writing the show ever gave us, it's not perfect and its flaws are all focused around trying to set up both genres. Do note that I'm going to use a lot of gender binary language here as magical girl shows have a strong focus on gender segregation and rarely if ever acknowledge gender diversity.

Let's Talk Magical Girls

Magical girl shows are shows that center on young women and their friendships. While male love interests are often present in these shows, the boys tend to take a backseat and function primarily as arm candy while the girls save the day and carry the narrative.

A great example of this is the show Winx Club. This show features a large cast of teenage girls who save the magical universe from various threats with their magical powers. Each girl has a love interest, but the boys are usually off doing their own thing and only occasionally show up for a date or to give the girls a ride on their cool bikes or magical spaceship. I don't even think that we see the guys fight or, if we do, it's a rare thing. They are not there to save the day. They are there to be shipping fodder.

Like most magical girl shows, Winx Club starts with the main character making friends with one of the girls who will eventually become part of her magical girl squad. This brings us back to Miraculous.

Did you ever find it weird that Origins implies that Marinette has no friends? She doesn't even have a backbone until new girl Alya shows up to become Marinette's First Real Friend:

Marinette: I so wish I can handle Chloé the way you do. Alya: You mean the way Majestia does it. She says all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good people do nothing. (pointing at Chloé) Well, that girl over there is evil, and we are the good people. We can't let her get away with it.

This is a bizarre opening because Miraculous is not about Marinette making friends or learning to stand up for herself. If you skipped Origins and just watched the rest of the show, then you'd have no clue that Marinette wasn't close with her classmates before this year. You also wouldn't know that Alya was new in town and you definitely wouldn't know that Marinette had never stood up to Chloé before this year. So why is this here? Why waste screen time setting up elements that aren't actually important to canon?

Miraculous did it for the same reason that Winx Club did it: magical girl shows traditionally start with the main character making friends with at least one of her eventual female teammates because Magical Girl shows are all about the girls and their relationships. The boys are just arm candy.

But Miraculous isn't a magical girl show. The writers have explicitly stated that it's a rom-com and romantic comedies aren't about female friendship. They might have female friendships in them, but that's not where the focus is. The focus of a rom-com is on the romance and Origins is very clearly all about the romance.

Origins as a Rom-com

Origins has a lot on its plate. It has to establish the villain's motivation for the first time, show us how the heroes got their miraculous, show us how the heroes first met on both sides of the mask, show us how they met their respective best friends, and show us how the heroes dealt with their first akuma. It would be perfectly understandable if this 40 minute two-parter didn't do anything with the romance. They have a full show to give us that!

In spite of this, Origins has some incredibly touching moments for both Ladynoir and Adrienette because romance is the heart of Miraculous. It is the main focus of the show. The driving motivation for both of our leads and the majority of the show's episodes. To tell the story of how their journey started without at least one of them falling in love would feel wrong. That's why we see both of them fall in love!

First we get Chat Noir giving his heart to his bold and brilliant lady, then we get Marinette's heart being stolen by the shy sweet boy who never once thought to blame her for her snap judgement of his character. We even get a touching moment where Chat Noir inspires his lady to accept her role and be Ladybug, leading her to boldly face their enemy and call him out:

Roger: I have a new plan, unlike you! Move aside and let the pros do their thing. You've already failed once! Ladybug: …He's right, you know. If I'd captured Stoneheart's akuma the first time around, none of this would have happened! I knew I wasn't the right one for this job… Cat Noir: No. He's wrong, because without you, she'd no longer be here. (they look at Chloe) And because without us, they won't make it, and we'll prove that to 'em. Trust me on this. Okay? Ladybug: Okay.

I love this moment, but it does lose a little of its power when you remember that we had an Alya-driven variation of this exact same thing five minutes prior:

Alya: HELP!! (Marinette suddenly gets filled with courage. She gets the case out of Alya's bag and puts on the Miraculous. Then, Tikki appears, happy to see Marinette again.) Tikki:(raising her arms) Mmmm! Marinette: I think I need Ladybug! Tikki: I knew you'd come around! Marinette: Well, I'm still not sure I'm up for this, but Alya's in danger. I can't sit back and do nothing.

This scene initially confused me because - if Miraculous is a rom-com - then why would you make Alya the reason that Marinette became Ladybug? Why wouldn't you have Chat Noir be the one in danger so that Marinette chose to fight because of her love interest and then encourage that bond with the later scene of him encouraging her? Why split the focus like this? Why give Alya so much attention?

In case you haven't figured it out, it's because Origins is trying to establish two different genres of show. Two genres that will continue to fight for the rest of the series (or at least the first five seasons).

Magical Girls Vs Rom-com

Why is Alya the one to shake off the nightmare dust and inspire the others during the season five finale? Why is Alya the one that Marinette trusts with all of her plans while Chat Noir is kept in the dark? Why does Alya and Marinette's friendship get so much more focus than Adrien and Nino's? Why was Alya the only temp hero who got upgraded to full time hero?

It's because Alya is Marinette's second in command in a magical girl show and magical girl shows focus on female friendships while the boys are just there to be cute and support the girls.

Why do most of Marinette's talks with Alya focus on Adrien? Why is Chat Noir the only other full time holder of a Miraculous for the first three seasons and then again for the final season? Why do Marinette's friends become more and more obsessed with Adrienentte as the show goes on? Why is the love square's identity reveal given so much more narrative weight than any other identity reveal?

It's because Miraculous is a rom-com and the love square is our end game couple, so of course the story focuses on their relationship above all else!

Are you starting to see the problem?

Circling back to our original question: no, it was not unreasonable for the fans to expect that the Alya reveal would have massive negative consequences for Ladynoir. That is what should happen in a rom-com and Miraculous is mainly written like a rom-com. But the writers are also trying to write a magical girl show and, in a magical girl show, Alya and Marinette's friendship should be the most important relationship in the show, so it makes perfect sense that the show treats the Alya reveal as perfectly fine because the Alya reveal was written from the magical girl show perspective.

When it comes to Miraculous, if you ever feel like a writing choice makes no sense for genre A, re-frame it as a thing from genre B and it suddenly makes perfect sense which is fascinatingly terrible writing! It's no wonder there are people who hate the Alya reveal and people who will defend it with their life. It all depends on which genre elements you've picked up on and clung to. Neither side is right, they've both been set up to have perfectly valid expectations. Whether those expectations are valid for a given episode is entirely up to the mercurial whims of the writers!

How Do We Fix This Mess

At this point, I don't think that we can, the show is too far gone, but if someone gave me the power to change one element of Miraculous, that element would be this: scrap both the magical girl stuff and the rom-com stuff and turn Miraculous into a team show where the friendships transcend gender.

At this point, I've written over a quarter of a million words of fanfic focused on these characters (the brain rot is real) and one thing I've discovered is that it is damn near impossible to keep Adrien and Alya from becoming friends. They're both new to their school while Marinette and Nino have gone to the same school for at least a few years. Alya and Adrien are both obsessed with Ladybug plus Adrien is a natural hype man who loves to support his friends and Alya loves to talk about her blog. Alya is dating Adrien's best friend. On top of that, Alya, Adrien, Nino, and Marinette are all in the same class, meaning that they pretty much have to be spending time together five days a week unless French school don't give kids a chance to socialize or do group projects. If so, then judging them for the first issue, but super jealous of the latter.

Given all of that, why in the world is does it feel like Alya is Marinette's close friend while Adrien is just some guy who goes to Alya's school? Along similar lines, while canon Marinette barely talks to Nino, I've found that Marinette and Nino tend to get along smashingly, especially if you embrace the fact that they have to have known each other for at least a few years.

If you embrace this wider friendship dynamic and scrap the girl squad, replacing it with Alya, Adrien, Marinette, and Nino, then the fight for narrative importance quickly goes away. It's no longer a question of is this episode trying to be a magical girl show or a rom-com? Instead, the question is: which element of the friend group is getting focused on today? The romance or the friendship?

A lot of hero shows do this and do it well. I think that one of the most well known examples is Teen Titans. That show has five main characters and the focus is usually on their friendships, but there is a very clear running romantic tension between the characters Robin and Starfire with several episodes giving a good deal of focus to their romance. I'd say that this element really starts in the show's the 19th episode - Date with Destiny - and it all culminates in the movie that capstones the series: Trouble in Tokyo. The character Beast Boy also gets a romance arc and, while it's more short lived, it's further evidence that you can have strong romances and strong friendships in the same show and even the same episode. You just have to own the fact that boys and girls can be friends with each other, a very logical thing to embrace when your show has decided to have a diverse cast of heroes instead of imposing arbitrary gender limitations on its magical powers.

I couldn't figure out a way to work this into the main essay, but it's relevant so I wanted to quickly point it out and give you more to think about re Origins. Have you ever found it weird how Origins gives both Adrien AND Marinette the "I've never had friends before" backstory and yet wider canon acts like Marinette has this strong amazing friend group while Adrien doesn't seem to care about making friends and instead focuses all his energy on romance? Why give both the protagonist and the supposed deuteragonist this kind of origin if it's not going to be a major element of the show? It makes so much more sense to only give one of them this backstory and then focus that person's character arc on learning about friendship.

About the Show

I fee like, with all my criticisms, it's about time I talk about what I do like about the show.

Firstly, I love Ron. He's very relatable - not instantly good at everything, but tries. He's always got Kim's back. He's not afraid to be himself, most of the time. And the way he treats Rufus like his best friend is sweet. His willingness to help his enemies is also very sweet.

Fun Fact: Rufus was put in the show because the execs requested an animal sidekick. So, they chose one that you couldn't just go out and buy, and it let them make people say "naked" a lot.

Secondly, I love the villains. Most shows of the time had villains where all their motivation is the same - money, power, etc. It can be kind of boring.

But that didn't happen in Kim Possible. Their villains were interesting, and a nice break from the usual mold.

Drakken? Recognition and revenge.

Shego? No one really knows. Hatred of her brothers is a good guess, though.

Senor Senior, Senior? Bored during retirement.

Senor Senior, Junior? Wants to be a pop star.

Duff Killigan? Revenge for being banned from every golf course in the world.

Motor Ed? Just wants to build the raddest vehicles ever.

Adrena Lynn? Revenge for being exposed as a fraud.

The Fashionistas? Fashion's too expensive.

DNAmy? Just wants real cuddle buddies.

Even the ones who did want money and/or power had interesting methods of going about it.

Monkey Fist? I am going to master Monkey Kung Fu.

Frugal Lucre? I am going to hold the internet hostage unless everyone in the world pays me $1. (This would work on me. I'd be giving him a dollar.)

Mathter? Turn someone into a guy who destroys everything he touches. (Actually, I'm not 100% sure what his goal was. Power, probably, but then what?)

The villains were genuinely entertaining. There's no other show where you're going to be fighting an angry Scotsman who's launching exploding golf balls at you, or a British master of Monkey Kung Fu.

Lastly, I like that, when Kim and Ron made new friends, they didn't immediately become new teammates. They might help out on a mission that's in their area of expertise, but they're not all joining the team right away, if ever. It's nice that Kim and Ron were able to have friends to just do normal stuff with.

Honestly, there is a lot to like about the show. There is a lot that I like about the show. But those are the three big ones I felt like mentioning.

If I listed everything I love about the show, this post would be too long to read.

As a follow up to you post about mentors, just to make things fair, what are examples of Tikki being a bad mentor to Marinette?

Post in question for context.

Tikki often acts as the voice of the author. She's there to explain why Marinette is in the wrong. Since Miraculous has some wacky morals, that means we get a mix of good advice and wacky nonsense advice.

Two examples of bad advice that come to mind are Gamer and Strikeback. Gamer is the episode where Marinette stumbles upon an Ultimate Mecha Strike tournament, realizes that Adrien is taking part, and decides to compete so they can be on a team together. Marinette wins a spot through her own hard won skills and then this happens:

Tikki: All you wanted to do is spend time with Adrien, there are other ways to do that! Marinette: What are you getting at? Tikki: You know how much Max wanted to be in that tournament. Kim said he'd been training for it all year. Marinette: You're right. All I could think about was Adrien. 

This is how tournaments work, right? They're not tests of skill, but tests of who put in the most work or who wants to compete the most! That's why we had that scene with Marinette writing out her training schedule and motivations for evaluation, but she lied and that was wrong and...

Okay, I was the one lying here. There was no written evaluation because that's not how tournaments work. All anyone cares about is your skills. They don't care if you're doing this for personal glory or to get closer to a boy or whatever Adrien's motivation was because - notably - his motivation didn't matter in this episode about needing pure motives to be allowed to do things.

What if he didn't care about the competition and only did it to get closer to his classmates? That's not even a random guess. It's a valid read because Adrien ultimately gives his spot to Max while claiming that Max is the better player even though Adrien very clearly beat Max at the start of the episode. Ignoring that weird nonsense dialogue, why was it fine for Adrien to compete when he didn't care but wrong for Marinette to do the same? And Max wanting to compete to show off his skills is also a totally selfish motivation, so why does it matter that he wanted it more? Everything about this episode was nonsense and uncomfortably sexist. If Max wants to compete, then he needs to get better at the game. That's how competitions work.

Strikeback is the second part of the season four final and it starts with Marinette mourning the fact that "Adrien" has left Paris, leading to this:

Marinette: (crestfallen) It's all over, Tikki. Tikki: He'll be back, Marinette. He's just going on a voyage!

Which would be lovely advice if Adrien was a normal boy, but he's Chat Noir and Tikki knows that. She should be freaking out and trying to find a way to get him back to Paris, but then Tikki would have to support Marinette's actions and we can't have that, so instead Tikki gives this nonsense advice because she has to be against whatever "wrong" thing Marinette is doing today.

I could come up with a few more examples, but I think those two paint a pretty good picture of issue one re Tikki. However, when it comes to Tikki, my main issue with her is less a wealth of bad advice - unlike Plagg*, I think she's right more often than not - and more a lack of support. It feels like she's just here to judge Marinette and point out when she's doing something wrong, but a good mentor should be so much more than that.

Kuro Neko is a great example of this. When Chat Noir quits, Tikki just sits back and does nothing while her young charge is freaking out. She doesn't even try to defend Marinette when Plagg is going off about Chat Noir's "ill treatment". For all Plagg's faults in that episode, at least he's doing something about the situation. Meanwhile Tikki literally has two lines in the entire episode! A similar thing happens in Kwami's Choice where Plagg is the one driving them to act while Tikki just wrings her hands in despair.

Tikki: (sighs heavily) What can we do? Plagg: We must free them of that impossible choice. We must… free them of us.

These are not the actions of a mentor. Mentors aren't supposed to just offer judgement about things that their mentee has already done or is considering doing. They're supposed to be a source of support and guidance in hard times, but we never really see Tikki stepping in to give Marinette that kind of advice. If memory serves, she never offers solutions or acts as a sounding board. That role is mainly filled by Alya and I love Alya! It's good for Marinette to have support from a friend, but Alya is also a teenager while Tikki is an ancient being who has seen many Ladybugs go through the kind of struggles that Marinette is going through. I expect her to use that knowledge to help her charge, but she never does. This exchange from Passion perfectly highlights this problem:

Tikki: Don't worry, Plagg... my holder has decided to run away from her real feelings to pursue an impossible love with Cat Noir instead. Plagg: Uh, just to be sure, sugarcube, you do know that Cat Noir and my holder are one and the same person, right? Tikki: I do, but my holder doesn't. Plagg: If she declares her love to Cat Noir, something tells me she'll find out soon enough. Tikki: You have nothing to fear. When my holder is in love, she never gets anywhere. She'll just knit hats and make very complicated plans that will never come to fruition. Plagg: Hmm... ah, then everything's fine.

Tikki, I love you, but by the gods! With a mentor like you, Marinette doesn't need enemies to be miserable! Do you care about her at all??? What kind of mentor delights at their mentee's suffering? Not a good one, that's for sure.

*Quick note: I think that Plagg and Tikki are probably neck and neck for who has given the most bad advice, Plagg just feels like the bigger problem because we don't see him as much as we see Tikki. Since she's tied to the main character, Tikki gives advice in almost every episode and most episodes have decent morals.

Adrien's need for good advice can also feel more glaring because he's so isolated and passive. That makes Plagg's lack of good advice feel more harmful, but Marinette is just as isolated from real advice. Her mentor figures - Su Han, Fu, and Tikki - mostly give orders and judgement instead of support and guidance. It's just harder to spot that fact because Marinette is actively trying to do the right thing, meaning that she's more likely to make mistakes, and it's easy to see why she comes across as a lot less pathetic and a lot easier to judge.

Would you say Kim was better in the last season? How much did she grew as a person?

Hmm...tough question. My answer may not be the most popular, but...

On the one hand, Kim's competitiveness seems to have died down, so I'll give her that.

On the other hand, I mentioned that it was a bit unfair of Kim to keep expecting Ron to pay for nice dates to expensive restaurants without coupons and not offer to pay for them herself, or how annoying it is that she not only had the job handed to her, but Monique literally begged her to take it. ("The Big Job")

And, while I can somewhat understand her jealousy of Yori, she shouldn't have let that interfere with a mission. Nor was she sympathetic towards Ron about being forced out of his room for a baby sister he didn't even know he was getting. ("Big Bother")

It wasn't cool of her to be hassling Monique to break an NDA when Kim herself likely already knew what the consequences would be for Monique if she did, nor was it cool to have Wade look over the contract for loopholes. ("Fashion Victim")

And she's still rude and judgmental about Larry's interests, which happen to be interests that Kim knows Ron shares. ("Larry's Birthday")

So, while Kim's competitiveness seems to have died down, her need to control everything is still an issue, and she's still unnecessarily judgmental about other peoples' harmless interests.

So I guess Kim improved a bit, but still has some issues to work on that aren't fully addressed.

Sorry if that's not the answer you were looking for.

Alright, addressing several points:

First, the examples @kim-and-ron gave of Ron keeping things to himself are all things that happened after the first episode. They're fairly recent problems, so I don't blame Ron for trying to solve those by himself.

And he didn't keep his self image issues a secret in "Ron the Man", nor did he keep his fears about their future a secret either in "Graduation". So those don't count as examples to your point.

Now, to my point: those were recent problems, but in the past Ron has told Kim about every other problem he's had; Wannaweep, gnomes, robotic horses, etc. Before the first episode, he had never kept his issues a secret from Kim.

@gothicthundra I do agree that it's totally reasonable to still be learning things about each other, and I will concede my point about Shaun as his reign of terror probably began fairly recently.

But if you can agree that the frequency of game nights meant Ron should have known about them, then surely you can agree that the bullying, which was more frequent, is something Kim should have known about?

And, these aren't just people who are mean to Ron, these are people who were attacking him, threatening him, and stealing his money. Since kindergarten.

Are we supposed to believe that at five years old, Ron decided to handle people beating him up and stealing his money on his own?

Are we really going to believe that, in the entire time it's going on, he never had an injury from them, or Kim never wondered were Ron's money has gone?

Or are we supposed to believe that Ron lied about those things, when he's canonically a terrible liar and had no reason to lie in the first place?

He's been getting robbed and attacked since kindergarten, and we're really supposed to believe it never came up before?

As for how I'd fix that scene in "Monkey Fist Strikes", here:

Ron: "I know you and Larry don't have a lot in common, but is game night with him and your Aunt June really so bad?"

Kim: "It's not the game, it's that I'm forced to listen to him talk about his conventions or his "LARPs", and that I've been forced once a month since I was three years old. Last month I learned more than I ever wanted to about that Fortress game."

And there, we have an exposition that explains things to the audience without Ron being ignorant of something that should've come up by now.

And, even though no one's asking, I have a proposal for fixing the issue of Kim not knowing Ron was getting bullied in "Mind Games".

Firstly, we'd have to have the bullying start recently, like Middle School.

Secondly:

Kim: "When you told me you were getting bullied, I thought you were just getting made fun of. I didn't realize it was this bad, and my advice definitely wouldn't have helped. I'm sorry I didn't help earlier."

Ron: "Yeah, I didn't know how to say it, and I figured just avoiding them would work fine. But, thanks."

Kim: "That's what friends are for. You can always come to me if you need help. And I'll try to listen better in the future."

Ron: "Thanks, KP. And hey, it's the same for me, you know?"

Kim: "I know, you'll always be there for me."

Rufus: *chirps*

Ron: "And Rufus!"

Kim: "And Rufus."

And, one final point:

I can kind of see the point about Ron keeping some of his problems to himself, but it seems strange that he never told Kim about his interest in baking. That's not a problem that needs solving, it's a new interest that he was eager to try and share, so why wouldn't he share it with Kim?

Honestly, I am grateful to everyone who's commented on this. I do enjoy hearing everyone's points, even if I don't agree with them.

Kim and Ron's dynamic seems...off. They don't seem like they've been best friends for ten years, it'd make more sense if they had only recently become friends, like in middle school.

And I'm not just saying that because Kim can be mean and judgmental at times, especially towards Ron. I'm saying that because, despite being best friends for 10+ years and living next door to each other, they don't seem to know things about each other that actual long-term best friends would.

"Monkey Fist Strikes" - Ron is aware that Kim dislikes her cousin Larry, but never knew about the monthly family game nights that have been going on since she was three.

"Mind Games" - Kim had no idea that Ron's been getting bullied since kindergarten. This especially makes no sense as this is something Ron would've asked Kim for help with. It definitely should have come up at some point.

"Two to Tutor" - Kim is genuinely surprised that Ron is good at baking, even though he's been doing it since he was eight.

"Hidden Talent" - Ron is unaware that Kim can sing, or that she has trouble hitting the high notes. Bonnie was able to obtain a video of this event, but somehow Ron was still unaware of it before now.

"Showdown at The Crooked D" - Ron is unaware that Kim has an uncle and a cousin, even though Kim actually seemed excited to see Joss.

"Bad Boy" - Kim is completely unaware of the existence of Ron's evil cousin Shaun, despite this being another thing that would make sense for Ron to ask Kim's help with.

I understand that they need a way to explain stuff to the audience, but can you imagine being someone's best friend for ten years, living next door to them, and not knowing about their family and interests?

Would they really be your best friend if you two knew so little about each other?

But that’s more of a problem with the show’s narrative rather than with Kim’s character.

And is super weird because Ron already gets a lot of spotlight from the series, he gets entire episodes where he does solo missions and succeeds, and even the series acknowledges from time to time how important he is to Kim’s success.

But those moments are few and far between, and right after that and most of the time he is back at being treated as the sidekick and as a liability even as a joke by the narrative and even by other characters and villains.

He is the sidekick, he is the comic relief. The show is called Kim possible after all. Kim is the Hero and Ron’s the sidekick. And that’s fair.

This is a comedic miseries and a girl empowerment show first and foremost. I don’t want to sound too harsh. The show at least acknowledges that Ron can be capable and has entire episodes dedicated to how much Kim needs him. Shouldn’t that be enough?

But it never stopped treating Ron as a sidekick and I get that’s the joke, but his character clearly developed far beyond that and I agree with you in that he deserves a little more respect from the show’s narrative.

Usually I dislike those type of stories, but now I can finally understand where those stories where Ron goes to Japan or becomes a superhero,even come from.

He is the most relatable character and a part of the fandom want to see him succeed and get the credit they think he deserves .

I wonder if there is a way to keep him in-character and maintain his role as a sidekick (that’s what he is! There’s no shame in that) and goofiness, while also showcasing that he is just as important and capable as Kim is. Do you think this is possible?

I think it can be a problem with both the narrative and Kim's character.

It being a problem with the narrative is a meta POV; it being a problem with Kim's character is an in-universe POV. And only one of those POVs makes for good fanfiction.

I wouldn't have a problem with him being treated like a sidekick if it came with respect and recognition. But he rarely ever gets that. It's not that Ron's the sidekick, it's that other sidekicks still get treated as important to the success of a mission, but Ron doesn't.

(Other sidekicks also get gadgets and communicators, and Ron doesn't.)

I don't think it's too harsh to say that Ron deserved more from the narrative. He outgrew the "goofy sidekick" role pretty early, so it's kind of annoying that no one acknowledges that.

Yeah, I'm not typically into the "Ron comes back from Japan" stories either, but I can understand why people would want them; Ron deserves recognition, and if Kim isn't going to give it to him, he deserves to leave and/or find someone who will.

Ron is extremely relatable, more so than Kim, so people would like him to be treated better.

As for keeping him as a goofy sidekick while still getting the respect he deserves, I do think it's possible, in theory...

However, that would require Kim acknowledging Ron is very capable, and Kim doesn't seem interested in doing that. (She adamantly denies it in "The Ron Factor".)

She is known to get jealous if Ron is good at something that she struggles with, so I don't think she'd be eager to acknowledge that he's good at anything, especially if it's something she takes pride in. ("Bueno Nacho", "Two to Tutor")

So, while it could work in theory, with the way Kim is, I don't think it would actually work well in practice.

It does seem like Ron going out on his own would be the only way for him to get respect.

It's sad, but, that's the way it is.

I would love for Ron to get more respect, but it doesn't seem like Kim is willing to give it.

So, if Ron decides the only way to get respect is to go out on his own, I wouldn't blame him.

I'm also ace, so I wouldn't notice sexualization as much as someone with a sex drive probably would.

I wouldn't say that the costumes themselves are inherently sexual, though I can't deny that the costumes combined with certain choices in lighting and posing do seem to indicate a desire for showing off certain parts.

My biggest complaint about the costumes is that, despite each hero having their own personal style as civilians, they're all put in generic spandex suits with only minor differences to show their personalities and powers.

And, since Plagg reveals that the costumes are largely based on personal preference, it seems weird that they're all in basically the same costume.

Kind of feels like the creators ignored that bit of lore in order to put them all in tight spandex for some reason.

There are numerous fan designs where the costumes match personal style and are still functional.

So, even if you don't agree with the sexualization, the designs are still kind of...bad.

At the very least, they're boring.

Is it true that Miraculous often sexualizes its characters? Because I see other people say this and want to know if it’s correct

I have not picked up on anything like that in Miraculous, but I'm ace, so sexualization has to be pretty overt for me to notice it on my own. It's entirely possible that there's something subtle that I'm missing. Until someone gives me specific examples, my stance is that this is incorrect. It's not an element that even crosses my mind when it comes to the reasons why I would discourage adults from introducing this show to kids. I am concerned about the quality of the romance between the leads, but that concern comes from a psychological standpoint about modeling what healthy relationships should look like. The love square is way too teen drama for a family show! However, from a purely physical standpoint, it's appropriate for all ages.

I loved all three of the shows you mentioned. Though in Winx Club’s case I just love the earlier seasons they went off the rails.

I'm not sure "off the rails" is the term I'd use, but it did seem like some of the plots were pretty crazy towards the end.

Then again, it is a world of magic, so I guess crazy can be expected.

Still feels like a bit much at times though.

And, as I stated, I know Winx Club didn't handle everything perfectly all the time, but it still did "girl power" way better than Kim Possible did.

Thoughts About "Clean Slate"

Obviously, I have thoughts.

And they're mostly about Kim/Ron.

More specifically, the fact that Kim doesn't remember the fact that she and Ron are dating.

Even more specifically, he reaction to being told they're dating.

Ron: No, not to worry. I’ll have KP back in time for dinner. After school I’ll give her a refresher around Middleton. It’ll be like a second first date.

Kim: Are you hitting on me?

Ron: Um, Kim, we are dating. I’m your boyfriend.

Kim: Boyfriend? Oh, wait, you’re serious?

So, here we have Kim finding the idea of her dating Ron amusing. She doesn't take it seriously, and doesn't seem interested in the idea.

I realize that Kim can't remember anything at the moment, and thus she's not really acting like herself.

But it's kind of unfair that Ron is the last thing Kim remembers.

Ron, who should be the most important person in Kim's life.

Ron, who is certainly the most integral person in Kim's life.

Ron, who is the biggest constant in Kim's life, the person she's spent the most time around, and she doesn't remember dating him until the end of the episode.

And it's annoying when we get scenes like this:

Ron: Hey, just take it slow, Kim. Nothing to worry about. You’re among friends.

Bonnie: Unh. Just learned to walk, K?

Ron: Except for Bonnie!

Kim: Bonnie? Oh, Bonnie! She and I are on the same cheer squad, right? So we’d be friends.

---

Monique: Ron, Wade told me. Lost memory. How’s she doing?

Ron: Eh, a little sketchy in some areas, particularly relationships. You know, she needs to remember things on her own, so don’t expect Kim to just--

Kim: Monique? Monique! I remember you! The first time I met you was at Club Banana. We’re, like, best friends.

---

Ron: Now, you can’t tell me that you don’t remember Bueno Nacho.

Kim: How could I forget? The center of the cheese and chip universe. Home of the naco and managed by Ned.

Ron: How is it you remember everything but the fact that we’re a couple?

Kim: Couple of what?

Ron: People who are dating.

Kim: Are you sure that we were dating? I mean sometimes people read a little more into things than they should, right?

Ron: OK, look, photo evidence, K.P.

Kim: Oh, wait a minute.

Ron: Prom, dancing, the kiss.

Kim: You called me in the middle of the night once to ask about us dating.

Ron: Yes!

Rufus: Yeah!

Kim: Then you said I melted.

Ron: No, ok, no, that was just a dream.

Kim: So we were dating in a dream you had?

Ron: Well, yes, in the dream, but also--

Kim: Why is my watch beeping?

Ron: Wade.

Kim: Hi, uh, Wade?

Ron: How did you remember his name?

Kim: You just said it.

Ron: Oh, right.

Wade: How are you doing, Kim?

Kim: Wade? Oh, Wade! Better. I’m starting to remember stuff.

---

Ron: Wait, wait, wait, wait! Shego, you tell her. Kim and I are dating, right?

Shego: What? For real? Oh, come on. That never made any sense to me. I mean--

Ron: See? That wasn’t a no. Unh.

Kim: Glowing hand. Glow…Go…Shego!

---

Wade: Ron? Ron fought Shego? Alone?

Kim: Well, I don’t know if fought is the right word.

Ron: Sure it is. I fought. Fought for my life.

Wade: Well, hopefully this will help Kim remember her fighting skills.

Kim: Cheer practice?

Wade: Well, so far all of your memories have been triggered by some event or meeting. Good luck.

Bonnie: Hello? Late for practice much?

Ron: OK, don’t let Bonnie get to you and whatever you do, don’t listen to anything she says. You’ll be fine.

Bonnie: I don’t know what your problem is, Kim. I knew this would happen when you started dating Naco Boy.

Ron: Aha, Kim, you see? Do you see? I’m Naco Boy.

Kim: Yeah, I shouldn’t listen to what Bonnie says.

It's not fair that Kim can't remember dating Ron, her best friend of 10+ years, someone who is extremely important to her, until he loses his pants again.

She remembers everything about Monique after just running into her in the halls.

She vaguely remembers Bonnie after running into her, and gets her full memory of Bonnie, including a complicated cheer routine, back after one try.

She remembers Bueno Nacho by just showing up.

She remembers Wade after a phone call.

She remembers Shego as soon as her hands start glowing.

And she remembers Drakken and how to fight before she even goes to confront him again.

But she can't remember Ron until the end of the episode?

This is unfair to everyone.

Especially since Kim is, for some reason, so resistant to the idea of them dating.

I mean, I guess I can understand not immediately believing you're dating some random guy, but Ron's not some random guy.

Kim still remembers their friendship, and trusts him on everything else.

But she doesn't accept that they're dating.

She won't even consider the idea.

And, if dating Ron was as important to her as cheerleading, fighting Shego, hanging out with Monique, or going to Bueno Nacho, shouldn't something have triggered her memory earlier?

Especially since Ron is involved in pretty much every aspect of Kim's life?

But, no, she doesn't remember until he loses his pants.

Not riding on the back of his scooter, which she did during the Li'l Diablos incident which, coincidentally, was the same day they started dating.

And did several other times before Kim got her own car.

Not going to Bueno Nacho, which they do all the time.

Not cheerleading, which Ron happens to be kind of involved in as the mascot.

Not even seeing Ron, which was enough for her to completely remember Monique and Wade (over video!) and kind of remember Bonnie.

No, the only thing that triggers Kim's memory of Ron is that he loses his pants.

And the fact that nothing but Ron losing his pants triggers her memory of them dating, implies that, on a subconscious level, that's how she views Ron.

Not as her boyfriend, but as her clumsy, bumbling, inept sidekick who's always losing his pants.

And everyone - Kim, Ron, us viewers - deserved better.

Reblogging from myself to add:

Kim was meant to be a role model for little girls. Real little girls. In the real world.

So, it kind of seems like she should be expected to follow real world standards, when it comes to behavior and morals, at least.

Especially because real people doing those things would get in trouble.

It's not like Kim's never allowed to make mistakes, I'd just prefer it if those mistakes were from a lack of knowledge, not because she didn't care.

But, again, you don't have to follow me if this isn't for you. I just had to get that last thought out there.

I’ll agree that is usually Ron who is a more dynamic character and he is usually the one one who seems to put more effort/is more invested into their relationship, (but this can be easily explained by S4 focusing more on him) but a lot of the things you are complaining about are just a result of judging a cartoon by real world standard and taking it far too seriously.

All of the points you brought up were just scenes that are meant to establish the plot of the episodes or show the changes the characters were going through, like the coupon scene was to establish Kim and Ron needed jobs.

And Kim expressing she wanted something different for their next date isn’t bad, she is communicating her needs and that’s a good trait in any relationship.

I'm aware they're scenes that were brought up to establish plot.

What's your point?

Maybe I am taking a cartoon too seriously, but that's my perogative.

If it bothers you, you don't have to follow me or see my posts. I'm not going to force you, or even hate you if you decide that my blog is not something you'd like to see regularly.

It's not for everybody, and I don't blame people who decide this isn't for them.

Yes, Kim expressing she wanted something different for their next date is good. My biggest complaint, and that's on me for not making it clear, is that when Ron did provide her with something new, she pouted and moped.

At a ceremony Ron's dad was being honored at.

It might not have been the most exciting thing ever, and I could understand the disappointment, but for an almost-adult, pouting and moping is kind of immature behavior.

Her sarcastic comment of "Yep, real exciting" also wasn't necessary.

Ultimately, it's not bad the she wants something new, it's bad that she doesn't offer specific ideas but complains about what Ron arranged anyways.

I understand that most of what I complain about is meant to establish the plot of the episode. I just think there were better ways to do that.

The coupon scene: there could have been other ways of establishing Kim and Ron wanting and/or needing jobs.

For example:

They're seniors who want a bit more independence and spending money than their allowances can provide.

Kim's saving up for a car and Ron's saving up for a new scooter.

They're both hoping to put extra money in their college funds.

Kim might want new clothes and Ron might want a new gaming system.

Kim wanted the employee discount at Club Banana and Ron wanted the employee discount at the places he applied to.

Any combination of the above.

There are definitely other scenarios in which they'd want and/or need jobs.

Kim complaining about Ron using coupons for their dates, despite not financially contributing to them herself, didn't have to be one of them.