Thoughts On Yori And Do You Ship Her With Ron?

It's so frustrating because we have characters like Marc and Nathaniel and Rose with powers that fit their personalities and interests and they don't get to use them very much.

Instead, we get a season where the villains get to use the powers, and they get to be much more creative with them.

It's frustrating. The villains were using the powers better than their chosen holders.

Nathaniel used Genesis to make a wand, but Nathalie used it to make a box of supplies.

Marc used Sublimation to give himself the power to always score a goal, but Tomoe used it to give herself an enhanced sense of smell, and Gabriel used it to give himself invisibility and flight.

Rose used it to make Juleka and Gigantitan calm down, but Mr. Damocles used it to distract multiple people and Miss Bustier used it to start a revolution.

The villains were using the powers more creatively than the heroes were.

(Note, it's not just a problem with these three, but they were the ones that best explained the problem.)

This makes it seem like the chosen holders aren't cut out to be heroes, despite what Ladybug says.

If Marinette and the villains are using the powers better than them, what's the point of them?

They could have been more, but the creators didn't want to work for that.

They want us to believe that these people are perfect for their Miraculouses because they said so, even when the show itself contradicts it.

And, honestly, that's terrible writing and unfair to the characters.

Ladybug Vs Avatar's use of the supporting cast and the problem thereof.

I'm not sure if this has been covered before, but there's a serious problem with Marinette being the be-all end-all of everything in Miaculous.

And it's not just because "she's stressed" or "it's all on her". Her being the most important, talented and plot-relevant character in every situation is.

Let's make a comparison to the Gold Standard:

In Avatar the Last Airbender, Aang is the axis of the story. He holds incredible powers beyond anyone else, can bend every element and could conceivably end the entire conflict that plagues his world with relative ease- which he eventually does.

However, for 99% of the story he cannot do so. Because Aang is untrained, he cannot access that divine win-button of the Avatar State at will, and using it carried enormous risks to himself and those around him- making it functionally unusable for common conflicts. Furthermore while he does technically have the capacity to use all four elements, he had only mastered one and needed to learn the remaining three.

Indeed, Aang has outright difficulty with learning Earthbending despite his innate talents and while he's a quick study for the other two, he doesn't demonstrate the same effectiveness with water and fire as Katara and Zuko.

This means that Aang cannot do certain things as well as the others in his team. This means that for the majority of the story, even though his first and preferred element provides him with useful abilities" Aang has weaknesses that he needs others to cover and provide for.

Enter Katara, Sokka, Toph and Zuko.

Katara is a waterbender who teaches Aang and later advances her powers to include the all-important power of healing and the disturbingly effective (though situational) Bloodbending.

Toph is an earthbender who is also one of Aang's teachers, and whose tremor sense later allows her to both detect liars and invent Metalbending.

Sokka is seemingly just the comic relief normie. However his technical mindset allows him to serve as the general of the group, and even plan and lead in that role for entire armies later in the show.

Even Zuko who joins later and becomes less a teacher but a fellow student alongside Aaang in firebending is a skilled infiltrator and melee weapon expert. (This is less of a case than the others since it's not used as much, but it's more of a concrete example than his insights into the fire nation and his potential utility as a replacement Fire Lord).

They each provide far more than those short summaries, but it's important to note that in each case, even when Aang does learn the elements and starts growing into his role as the Avatar: he never gains the full range of abilities that his team offers. He never assumes the fully strategic mindset of Sokka, and even though it's downright implausible that no Avatar before him never learnt healing, he never demonstrates that ability or any Metalbending prowess even in the Avatar state.

There's also the enemy trio of Azula, Ty Lee and Mai. Azula is a powerful firebending genius, but Mai's prowess with her throwing weapons are a close match- and Ty Lee's chi-blocking can outright cripple enemy benders for any given fight when combined with her insane agility: something that not even Azula can do with her firebending. They are an incredibly dangerous combination and when Azula loses them, she becomes far less effective for their absence.

In both teams despite the leader being a powerful, talented bender who is objectively the strongst person on their respective side: there's no doubt about each member of the team contributing something that said leader cannot.

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Now let's look at Miraculous:

Marinette is the "Greatest Ladybug" of all time despite being fourteen, only having had the earrings for less than a year, and having a list of predecessors that go back literally thousands of years and include Joan of Arc.

She is also the Guardian of the Miracle Box. Specifically she is the Guardian of The Mother Box that is the most important of all the boxes, despite there being at least a full Temple's worth of actually trained candidates somewhere in Tibet who should be far and above more capable than her or her mentor Fu. However, her supposed superior Su-Han seems entirely convinced that she's already surpassed any teachings his order has by how often she breaks said teachings in his face only for him to roll over like a dog. There's not been a single time when Marinette has been confronted by some shortcoming in her responsibilities as a Guardian where she has had to learn anything from the multi-millennia old Order of Gurdians.

Marinette has also worn almost every single Miraculous in her Box at the same time, a feat that supposedly risked serious harm to her but merely made her woozy for an afternoon (if that). As of the season five Finale, she has also unified her earrings with her partner's ring: a scenario that in earlier seasons seemed to imply great risk: yet she was able to use the powers flawlessly.

As Ladybug, she is also the lone hero who has unlocked any new advanced powers with her Miraculous (unless you also include the arbitrary "adulthood" that she and Chat Noir achieved that allows them multiple uses of their Miraculous before detransforming), and on the occasions when she's used anyone else's powers has shown no sign of being any less capable than they are with them.

Ladybug does everything as well if not better than everyone else.

Marinette can not only unify with any Miraculous she needs for a given mission, she can use the powers as effectively as their "dedicated holder" can and without any restrictions. Unlike the majority of the cast who are still under the child-power limit. She can even unify with multiple miraculous at the same time without any drawbacks.

And without those drawbacks, without anyone on the cast being able to use the power of their Miraculous more effectively than Marinette: everyone else on the team is more or less superfluous.

Sure, Marinette has tossed out the Miraculous to her team like candy now. But when you get down to it: the real lesson that she should have learnt from Strikeback to just put some damn security on her Yo-yo/The Box. Because this just means that she has to wait for the hero in question to show up when she could have just pulled off whatever plan she has in mind herself.

And that superfluous label includes Chat Noir.

As frustrating as it is to come to the this conclusion: as of right now, there's no real reason for Adrien Agreste to be anything but a temporary holder. Certainly you can point to his experience with Plagg's power, and a few examples that seem to imply he can do more with it (in his second outing he was able to reconstruct part of the Eiffel Tower into a makeshift extension to catch someone from). Things that imply that if he perhaps received any actual training in the show like Marinette did from Fu, any guidance whatsoever from the Order or their Grimoire he might be able to achieve more.

But there's no solid evidence to expect that Marinette wouldn't be as effective, and the narrative precedent does not lend itself to the idea that anyone could overshadow Ladybug as a holder even of their own Miraculous. If anything, the sheer ability Marinette showed as Bug Noire implies that her having a partner instead of just keeping the ring herself is a detriment to any given situation.

If you can justify exposing the ring to potential capture in the first place considering that there seems to be no requirement to do. By all rights the practical thing to do is just keeping Plagg in the box instead of risking reality.

Of course we wanted to be generous, Adrien could still be of some use. He's the resident meatshield and narrative jobber. So long as he has a Miraculous he could continue faithfully serving in those roles, eating up mind-control beams and taking hits for Bug Noire so she can save the day as usual.

But everyone else on the Miraculous team might as well turn in their furry super-suits and go home.

-

You couldn't get a more black white depiction of the value of others outside of the protagonist. in Avatar, Aang is literally a semi-divine being who still needs to be humble and learn while the others around him still have useful special talents and prowess that he can't simply attain at will.

While in Miraculous, there's only one person of actual true competence. From Paris to Shanghai, Marinette alone is the capable one- barring the odd episode in the limelight (Alya and Felix stand up and take a bow. Adrien can stay seated).

There is a word for a character that is impossibly more capable than any other in spite of all reason and logic. And Marinette is increasingly fitting that mold as the show goes on. There's also a term for characters that ultimately contribute nothing good or bad to a story; wasted space. You can't have an entire ensemble of characters as part of the cast and have them provide nothing if they're supposed to have even a smidge of narrative value without making them something the story would be better off without.

Just as you can't just have one person at the centre of everything, make them capable of everything and not eventually have the story they're in turn into (at best) a power fantasy.

And it's a shame. Because Miraculous seemed like it could have been a lot more.

Would you say Kim was better in the last season? How much did she grew as a person?

Hmm...tough question. My answer may not be the most popular, but...

On the one hand, Kim's competitiveness seems to have died down, so I'll give her that.

On the other hand, I mentioned that it was a bit unfair of Kim to keep expecting Ron to pay for nice dates to expensive restaurants without coupons and not offer to pay for them herself, or how annoying it is that she not only had the job handed to her, but Monique literally begged her to take it. ("The Big Job")

And, while I can somewhat understand her jealousy of Yori, she shouldn't have let that interfere with a mission. Nor was she sympathetic towards Ron about being forced out of his room for a baby sister he didn't even know he was getting. ("Big Bother")

It wasn't cool of her to be hassling Monique to break an NDA when Kim herself likely already knew what the consequences would be for Monique if she did, nor was it cool to have Wade look over the contract for loopholes. ("Fashion Victim")

And she's still rude and judgmental about Larry's interests, which happen to be interests that Kim knows Ron shares. ("Larry's Birthday")

So, while Kim's competitiveness seems to have died down, her need to control everything is still an issue, and she's still unnecessarily judgmental about other peoples' harmless interests.

So I guess Kim improved a bit, but still has some issues to work on that aren't fully addressed.

Sorry if that's not the answer you were looking for.

I have received a lot of backlash for criticizing Kim Possible as it was one of the most popular "girl power" shows of the time.

Not just here but in other internet spaces as well.

And, truly, I admit that, at the time, I admired Kim.

Emphasis: at the time.

But, as people tend to do, I grew up. I got older, learned more about the world, learned more about people, girls especially, and, when I started rewatching Kim Possible, came to a horrifying revelation:

Kim Possible is not a "girl power" show, it's just a show about a powerful girl.

What does a girl power show look like?

Well, it's best to explain with examples.

I'll keep them limited to crime-fighting shows that were on the air at around the same time Kim Possible was.

Shows being used as examples include:

Teen Titans

X-Men: Evolution

Winx Club

So, what is it that makes these shows girl power shows, but not Kim Possible?

Well, there's a lot, so it's best to grab a snack and a drink, this could be a while.

Let's begin:

Multiple Heroines

Teen Titans starts out with two awesome heroines, Raven and Starfire, and adds more to the cast later - Kole, Bumblebee, Terra, Argent, etc.

X-Men: Evolution had multiple heroines from the beginning, with more added later. And one of the original heroines was an older female mentor that everyone, including boys, looked up to.

Winx Club is a female-led show with five, later six, awesome female leads and powerful females in mentor roles that are admired and respected by men and women alike.

But Kim Possible only has one heroine for girls to look up to - Kim herself.

Sure, Yori's impressive, but she's not really her own character as she's meant to aid in Ron's development.

And while Dr. Director could be cool, we don't actually see her do more than delegate, which, while important, is hard for people to look up to.

And the professional heroes, Team Impossible, are an entirely male group.

Kim Possible only has one female for little girls to look up to.

So, if, for some reason, you find yourself not looking up to Kim, then you're out of luck with this show, because there's not any other girl for you to look up to.

It's not a girl power show if there's only one girl to look up to.

Complex Thoughts and Feelings

The girls of Teen Titans are shown with varied and complex thoughts and emotions. Starfire uses her feelings to fuel her powers, and, even though she's apathetic, there are multiple episodes that address that Raven has complex thoughts and feelings but has to keep them under control because of her powers.

In X-Men: Evolution all the characters, especially the girls, are shown with complex thoughts and feelings.

In Winx Club the girls are shown with thoughts and feelings, and it's established that their feelings fuel their magic.

But in Kim Possible, Kim's thoughts and feelings aren't very complex. Kim is shown to dislike something, or have strong opinions about something, but anything deeper is rarely explored.

When Kim didn't want Ron to be the mascot in "Attack of the Killer Bebes", there's no reason given.

When she's jealous of Yori in "Gorilla Fist", it's only hinted that it's because of her romantic feelings for Ron.

And she certainly doesn't actually talk about her feelings afterwards.

Her underlying thoughts, feelings, and motivations are rarely explored.

A girl power show should explore the thoughts and feelings of it's main character.

Competent Heroes

In Teen Titans, the Doom Patrol are in fact skilled and competent, even if they "die" a lot.

In X-Men: Evolution, the older heroes are actually good at what they do.

In Winx Club, the Specialists aren't considered less competent, they're just trained differently. And the older heroes are, in fact, very skilled.

In those shows, the more experienced and professional heroes are actually shown to be competent.

In Kim Possible, Agent Du and Team Impossible are (supposed to be) less skilled than Kim.

(Though, really, the laser web thing isn't a fair assessment of ability if they're not starting from the same place.)

While I get that Kim is supposed to be the hero, it'd be more impressive if the professional heroes were actually portrayed as good at their jobs.

The other shows don't require dumbing down the professionals to make the heroines shine, so Kim Possible shouldn't need that either.

A girl power show shouldn't need the professionals dumbed down for the girl to shine.

Independence

In the other shows, each girl is a formidable force on their own.

Maybe not able to take down every bad guy on their own, but certainly able to hold their own in a fight.

But in Kim Possible, Kim is dependent on Ron and Wade to succeed.

(As shown in "Bueno Nacho" and "A Sitch in Time".)

She is completely incapable of handling missions on her own, making her unable to be a stand-alone hero.

The main character of a girl power show should be capable of doing things without her sidekicks.

Kindness

In the other shows, the main heroines are shown to be kind to others, even those outside their immediate friend group.

A few missteps along the way, but rarely ever having malicious intentions.

Not never, but rarely.

And especially no ill intent towards their friends.

Being kind takes a lot of strength at times, so a heroine who is kind is strong and worth looking up to.

(Seriously, kindness is powerful. The world needs more of it.)

But Kim isn't very kind to her loved ones.

Don't get me wrong, she saves the world and does other things to help people, but the way she treats those closest to her is not kind, and not worth looking up to.

Hyper-competitive, bossy, controlling, condescending, judgmental, etc. These aren't actually behaviors we want little girls emulating.

A kind heroine is more powerful than a bossy, controlling, judgmental, overly-competitive one.

Acknowledgment

In the other shows, the heroines acknowledge their teammates' contributions, and don't feel jealous or threatened when one of them is better than them at something.

In Winx Club, Stella, a character who could have been a stereotypical vain, spoiled princess, is constantly praising her friends on their accomplishments.

In X-Men: Evolution, the girls acknowledge each other's strengths and skills.

And in Teen Titans, Starfire is constantly showing her friends affection and believing in their abilities. Raven too, but not quite as enthusiastically.

But in Kim Possible, Kim refuses to acknowledge Ron as important to her success, and never gives him credit for his contributions.

(Well, not to his face.)

And, while she might praise Wade when he does something cool, she clearly doesn't value him very much, as shown by her comment in "The Truth Hurts" and her disregard for his warnings in "Queen Bebe".

A role model has no problems acknowledging the contributions of others and respects her teammates.

Training

In the other shows, the heroines are shown training in the use of their powers.

But in Kim Possible, Kim is naturally good at everything.

Okay, maybe not driving or cooking, but Kung Fu and cheerleading, to name a few.

The only time we see Kim practice anything is cheerleading, but "A Sitch in Time" revealed that she was an expert from the beginning.

She was good enough at Kung Fu to impress Hirotaka, a life-long student of Kung Fu, despite saying herself that she only dabbles in it, and she's never seen training in it.

It's not even mentioned that she had any actual training in it.

And, honestly, "naturally good at everything" is hard to emulate. It's not easy to look up to "impossibly talented" when you're older.

A heroine who fails and keeps trying is more admirable than one who never fails.

Varied Interests

In the other shows, the female characters don't all have the same interests.

Teen Titans has Raven interested in things like books while Starfire is interested in cute animals.

X-Men: Evolution has Jean do basketball and soccer, Kitty enjoys theater and parties, and Rogue likes literature, to name a few.

Winx Club has Stella into fashion, Musa is interested in music, Tecna likes technology, Aisha likes sports, and Flora likes nature.

But in Kim Possible, the girls are all interested in the same things; boys, boy bands, pop music, fashion, celebrities, etc.

(Aside from Monique's interests in wrestling and extreme sports, which never get brought up more than once each.)

Despite Kim herself doing Kung Fu and other extreme sports on the regular, the other girls are shown to only be interested in stereotypical teenage girl things.

(Again, aside from Monique's interests that are only mentioned once each.)

(And also aside from Zita, who is stated as being interested in video games and on the swim team, but disappears after her second episode until "Graduation".)

A girl power show would have girls with a variety of interests, not just the stereotypical ones.

Romantic Relationships

The other shows have great romantic relationships.

In Teen Titans, Robin/Starfire had build-up, despite their interest in each other being obvious from the beginning.

In X-Men: Evolution, Jean/Scott had build-up despite their feelings being clear from the beginning, and Kurt/Kitty were never more than friends with them both ending up in relationships with other people.

In Winx Club, all the relationships took time to build up, and some don't stay together forever but neither half is entirely demonized for it.

But there wasn't a lot of build-up for Kim/Ron, with Kim insulting Ron for suggesting people might think they date and Ron expressing discomfort at the idea of dating Kim.

A girl power show should have a proper build up to a romantic relationship.

Lack of a Fool

In the other shows, there is no one "fool" character who is a majority of the humor.

There is no one character who is the butt of all the jokes.

Sure, Teen Titans has Beast Boy, who's pretty humorous and funny, but his abilities and skills as a hero are still acknowledged and respected.

And plenty of the humor comes from other characters as well.

X-Men: Evolution has Nightcrawler, who certainly jokes around a lot, but he's still taken seriously in serious moments.

And other characters contribute to the humor of the show to.

But in Kim Possible, Ron isn't taken seriously.

Ron, despite having many moments where he shows impressive skills, isn't taken seriously as a hero.

His feelings are also rarely taken seriously, even about things that are pretty serious.

And Ron is responsible for 90% of the show's humor, often at his expense.

Ron is meant to be a bumbling, clumsy, inept, incompetent character to emphasize how much Kim shines.

But a real girl power show doesn't need that, because the heroine(s) shine anyways.

Summary

Unlike some of the other "girl power" shows of the time, Kim Possible decided the only thing that's important is that Kim is capable of fighting bad guys.

But a strong female character is so much more than fighting bad guys.

Now, I'm not saying the other shows listed handled everything perfectly. I know some things were handled poorly, but in terms of "girl power", they were still handling it better than Kim Possible.

And, shockingly, only one of them was even intended to be a "girl power" show.

I guess a better girl power show would have girls as people first, icons second.

So, it's not as though a fashion show isn't cool or anything, it's just that...

I feel like assigning each group to do a fashion show for their end of semester project is...limiting.

For example:

Ruby is a Mixed Media and Graphic Design focus. I literally cannot tell what her contribution to their final runway was.

(Someone tell me if they know what it is.)

Sunny's animations were good, but they weren't all that she could do. She could do more if she wasn't limited to doing a fashion show. A short film or animated music video would be cool.

And that's not even getting into some of the other people who's shows we didn't see.

What would Daria Roselyn, a Music Focus, and Georgia Bloom, a Performing Arts focus, do for a fashion show? Model?

What about Emi Vanda? Did she paint a set? Make props?

We don't even know who was in Colin's group, or what he did for his runway.

The point is, making everyone do a runway for their end of semester project can be limiting.

It also requires every group to have at least one Fashion focus, which seems a bit...unlikely.

A better system would be...well, it's complicated, but I'll do my best to explain it.

Everyone gets assigned a group. (I don't like this, but I'll leave it for now.)

The group has to agree on a project and submit their idea to a group supervisor for approval. (Our main girls would probably still do a fashion show.)

Their project proposal must say what each group member is going to contribute.

If it's approved, they get to start on it. If it's not approved, they have to make the changes their supervisor asks of them.

There's a deadline to get their proposals approved. If they're not approved by then, they'll be assigned a project. (I'm sure Miss Wright would have a few ideas.)

Regular check-ins would proceed as normal, with everyone showing the progress they made on their part of the project.

By the end of the semester, they have to have their project finished.

This could lead to some interesting ideas for projects, such as:

A museum exhibition

A clothing display

A mini concert

A short play

More ideas

This could be interesting. It could be fun to hear about groups doing something other than a fashion show.

And, like I said, giving the students a chance to pick their projects for themselves would give them better opportunities to show what they can do.

Team Impossible: Wrong, But Also Right (Redux)

"Team Impossible" could have been a great episode to introduce mentor-like characters to Kim and Ron. Instead, Team Impossible is a bunch of jerks who want Kim out of the business for the shallowest reason possible - Kim doing missions for free is cutting into their profits.

There were other reasons they could have given for wanting Kim out of the business. For example:

They won't almost get embarrassed out of existence like Kim in "Blush".

The have plans for if one of them is too sick to go on a mission, unlike Kim in "Sick Day".

They'll actually put stuff they're guarding in safe places, unlike Kim in "October 31st" and "Adventures in Rufus-Sitting".

They won't misuse potentially dangerous gadgets (for personal gain), unlike Kim in "Queen Bebe".

They were able to take down Drakken and Dementor in the time it took Kim to show up. (Granted they were sabotaging Kim's rides, they're still quick and efficient.)

They're full grown adults who are mentally and emotionally developed enough to understand the dangers they're putting themselves in.

They have the experience and training to handle themselves instead of relying on the good will of others.

They don't have to balance saving the world with things like school, clubs, or dates.

Like, there are a lot of good, valid reasons for adults to not want a couple of teenagers to save the world, but instead we get profit.

Also, getting paid for their services isn't so bad. Their resort, training, equipment, and transportation all cost money just to maintain.

Unlike Kim, they don't have people giving them those things for free, so they have to charge somebody.

(And they checked a guy's credit before charging him, probably to make sure he could actually afford it.)

There are a lot of things more important than money, I won't argue with that.

But, since they're footing the bill for all the expenses themselves, it's not wrong to ask for financial compensation for this service. If they didn't, they'd eventually be unable to actually do the job.

(And the guy who charged didn't seem to upset about paying anyways. A little taken aback at first, but not upset. He even gave them a gift basket as well.)

However, I digress.

The point is, there are actual, valid reasons for them to want Kim out of the business, profit didn’t have to be the issue.

Lack of experience, lack of training, and careless mishandling of certain missions would have been enough and would have had the potential for introducing possible mentors.

They could've been people who helped Kim learn from her mistakes and grow from them.

But the creators have a habit of introducing someone to the show who also saves the world and then have Kim be either better, like with Will Du, or more moral, like with Team Impossible, so we never see them again.

Thus, Kim is the lone hero in the world.

And she shouldn't be.

First off, I'd like to thank you for taking the time to reply to me. It doesn't happen often, so I do appreciate it.

Secondly, I'm going to politely disagree with you.

To address some of your points:

I will agree with you that Kim would try to hide an embarrassing incident from her childhood, and that Ron would probably have forgotten it, so I will actually agree with you on that one.

Ron agreed to forget that Shego and Kim get their eyebrows waxed in "Stop Team Go", so I agree with you there.

But it's revealed that Kim asked Ron to help her when her braces got stuck to Walter Nelson's in the eighth grade, so it seems like Kim calls Ron when something embarrassing happens. So him not knowing about the singing incident does seem unusual.

I can kind of see your point about Ron having his own interests, but he's been known to tell Kim about all of them; wrestling, video games, boy bands, etc. He's never had an interest Kim didn't know about, so her not knowing he bakes seems unusual.

He started baking after getting a toy oven for his eighth birthday, something Kim was around for, so it seems like something he'd tell Kim about almost immediately. For him to not tell Kim about it is unusual.

I appreciate your perspective on the family situation, but Kim and Ron aren't Latin American; they're from Colorado. Kim doesn't have a lot of cousins she hasn't seen since childhood. Larry's been coming over to her house once a month since she was three, and she at least keeps in touch with Joss via email.

Ron lives next door to Kim, so the fact that he never noticed Larry going over to Kim's house is unusual.

I can be more understanding of not knowing about Joss, since it does seem like they haven't seen each other in person in a while.

Ron doesn't strike you as the kind of character who would ask for help with things like that? No offense, but when was the last time you watched the show?

Ron is known to whine and complain about everything, especially to Kim. He asks for Kim's help with anything, so the fact that he never asked for help with bullies, either the ones at school or his cousin, is unusual and out of character for him.

He's known Kim longer than he's been bullied, longer than Shaun's been alive, and isn't afraid to ask for her help, so it seems strange that Kim never knew about either of those instances.

In "A Sitch in Time" it's revealed that they met when Kim saved Ron from bullies, albeit in the alternate timeline it was Drakken, Killigan, and Monkey Fist as toddlers, so it doesn't make sense that Ron wouldn't ask Kim for help with that.

I will grant that we don't know what event lead to them being friends in the unaltered timeline, but I feel my point still stands.

I have nothing against them still learning new things about each other, given that they're at that age where they're still learning new things about themselves, so I can understand not knowing some things about each other.

Ron's interest in boy bands was a fairly recent development, he didn't even like them before the episode.

Kim's obsession with designer brand clothes probably didn't happen until she had her own spending money.

Those are understandable things to just be learning about each other.

But the specific things I mentioned in my original post are things that they would've been reasonably expected to know each about each other by the start of the show.

Kim and Ron's dynamic seems...off. They don't seem like they've been best friends for ten years, it'd make more sense if they had only recently become friends, like in middle school.

And I'm not just saying that because Kim can be mean and judgmental at times, especially towards Ron. I'm saying that because, despite being best friends for 10+ years and living next door to each other, they don't seem to know things about each other that actual long-term best friends would.

"Monkey Fist Strikes" - Ron is aware that Kim dislikes her cousin Larry, but never knew about the monthly family game nights that have been going on since she was three.

"Mind Games" - Kim had no idea that Ron's been getting bullied since kindergarten. This especially makes no sense as this is something Ron would've asked Kim for help with. It definitely should have come up at some point.

"Two to Tutor" - Kim is genuinely surprised that Ron is good at baking, even though he's been doing it since he was eight.

"Hidden Talent" - Ron is unaware that Kim can sing, or that she has trouble hitting the high notes. Bonnie was able to obtain a video of this event, but somehow Ron was still unaware of it before now.

"Showdown at The Crooked D" - Ron is unaware that Kim has an uncle and a cousin, even though Kim actually seemed excited to see Joss.

"Bad Boy" - Kim is completely unaware of the existence of Ron's evil cousin Shaun, despite this being another thing that would make sense for Ron to ask Kim's help with.

I understand that they need a way to explain stuff to the audience, but can you imagine being someone's best friend for ten years, living next door to them, and not knowing about their family and interests?

Would they really be your best friend if you two knew so little about each other?

Would a sequel series that acknowledges Kim’s flaws and works to fix them help you see her in a better light?

Ideally? Yes.

Honestly? I'm not 100% sure, but it would be appreciated.

The most important thing is that it's handled without people acting too out of character.

For example, if Ron tells Kim how much something hurts him and she immediately apologizes and corrects it, though it'd be nice, it's not very in-character.

They'd need to have more back and forth before Kim acknowledges that she's hurting him/that it's bad.

Not saying they have to break up, but it wouldn't be very in-character for Kim to immediately recognize her faults.

Kim's very stubborn. Not being mean, she just is.

It's a requirement for saving the world, but when it negatively impacts her personal life, it's a problem.

Thoughts on "Grudge Match"

Specifically the plot surrounding Vivian.

While this episode is supposed to be about how girls can be pretty and smart, there was definitely more than Vivian's looks working against Team Possible in regards to Vivian's identity.

First, she was first mentioned as Dr. Fenn's ex-lab partner, presumably pushed into quitting because she couldn't keep up. At this point, they don't have any reason to distrust Dr. Fenn.

Second, when they do run into Vivian, she gets defensive instead of trying to explain things.

Last, Vivian had deliberately published all her research under the name V. F. Porter, a gender-neutral sounding name.

Despite this, Kim still managed to figure it out, with a little help from Wade.

Don't get me wrong, I definitely understand why she didn't think people would believe her.

Kim: She is right here... Dr. Vivian Frances Porter, noted robotics authority. Vivian: How did you know? Kim: A little digging. But why the secrecy? Vivian: My colleagues wouldn't take someone who looks like me seriously.

Especially since she had a respected scientist like Dr. Fenn actively working against her. Still, I feel as though there was a lot more than looks working against Team Possible here.

Other Thoughts:

Ron: OK. Wait. Time out. Time out. So, you're telling me she looks like that, and is a genius! The rules aren't gonna like this.

This is actually unusual for Ron. Other than this episode, we never see him caring about gender stereotypes this much. (Or at all, really.)

And:

I love Vivian and all, but I really hope she wears something else while working. Labs have dress codes for a reason!

Last:

While I do like the episode, it doesn't really emphasize much that pretty girls (and girls in general) aren't taken seriously as scientists (or other kinds of nerds).

Most of the reason they don't know Vivian's the real scientist is because they were lied to and Vivian never tried to explain things to them.

(And she had published all her research under a gender-neutral version of her name.)

At no point was anyone actually acting like Vivian's looks were the reason she couldn't have been the actual scientist. It's definitely happened to her in the past, but Team Possible wasn't acting like that.

(Even Dr. Fenn wasn't upset that she was pretty, just that she was better than him.)

So, while I do think it's important to tell people that girls can be smart and pretty, this episode kind of missed the mark. But only barely.

A better way of addressing that issue would be to have Vivian try to explain to the scientists at the Space Center that she was the one who built the robot, and have them not believe her.

(Aside from Dr. Wong, who is willing to hear her out.)

Then, Kim could suggest a Robot Rumble to prove who the real robotics expert is. Vivian would win, of course, and the other scientists would be forced to apologize and offer Vivian a job.

(Dr. Wong would explain that she gets it; women are often overlooked and undervalued in STEM fields, especially the pretty ones.)

And we still have it somehow revealed that Oliver's a robot. Maybe he gets hit by a stray EMP coming out of Vivian's (other) robot.

The most frustrating thing about Kim is how she's immune to criticism. Her apologies are almost always met with the other person apologizing, even when they shouldn't have to.

"But Kim apologizes and learns her lesson! She grows and matures past those things! It's not fair to hold it against her forever!"

Does she? Let's review:

"Bueno Nacho" - Apologizes for getting mad at Ron for outshining her at the job. Not for forging an application for him or guilting him into taking the job in the first place.

Bonus: This is the first of Kim's apologies, and she consistently apologizes for the most minor transgression of the episode, ignoring all the other ones.

"Attack of the Killer Bebes" - Says she'll support Ron because he's her best friend, but doesn't actually apologize.

"The New Ron" - Apologizes for saying Ron needs a new haircut. Not for forcing him into one. Not for not caring how much he hated it. Not for stealing his hat. Not for humiliating him. Tries to throw in a lesson at the end that it's what's on the inside that counts, ignoring that fact that she was the one who forced him to change in the first place.

Bonus: Once again, Kim only apologizes for the most minor transgression.

Bonus+: There's a scene where Kim gets mad at Ron for "abandoning" Rufus, but, having watched the episode recently, I can say that's not what happened; Ron, despite not having pockets, still carried Rufus around with him, Rufus wandered off on his own. Ron probably wasn't too worried because Rufus does that frequently. And he does gently chastise Rufus for wandering off anyways. Thus, Kim's anger at Ron was not justified, and likely just because she was looking for an excuse.

"Coach Possible" - Never actually apologizes for driving her brothers' soccer team so hard they cry. Doesn't apologize, but does get fired from a job she didn't want in the first place, and mopes about it.

"October 31st" - Doesn't apologize for the lying or putting other people in danger. Doesn't acknowledge that she was putting other people in danger.

Bonus: How would Monique's family react to finding out one of Monique's party guests destroyed their garage door? Probably not happy, and banning Kim from their property until she can pay off the replacement wouldn't seem unreasonable.

Bonus+: I doubt the people asking Kim to retrieve the Centurion Project would've been happy to find out how it got stuck to her in the first place. I imagine Kim would be getting much fewer retrieval jobs after that.

"The Twin Factor" - Doesn't apologize for using mind control on her brothers. Tries to justify it and, though her parents clearly disapprove, isn't punished for it.

"The Ron Factor" - This would have been a great episode about Kim learning she takes Ron for granted and apologizing, but instead, despite doing practically nothing in this episode, she still has credit handed to her.

Bonus: The Global Justice scientists said the results of their study into "The Ron Factor" were complete and that Ron was a non-factor, but there's a movie about how Ron is vital to Kim's success, so clearly this is false. Perhaps they meant they couldn't replicate it?

"Adventures in Rufus-Sitting" - Lies to Ron about how it went watching Rufus. Doesn't apologize for not taking it seriously. Doesn't apologize for accidentally endangering Rufus. Just lies to him about how it went.

Bonus: My sister has mentioned to me that how someone treats a pet says a lot about how they view the pet's owner. So Kim's treatment of Rufus says a lot about her opinion of Ron.

"Return to Wannaweep" - Doesn't apologize for not taking Ron's concerns seriously or sabotaging Bonnie. Even Dr. Lurkin apologizes for not taking Ron's concerns seriously. And then Ron tries to give a lesson about how if Bonnie and Kim weren't so busy competing with each other, one of them could have won the Spirit Stick, as though Kim and Bonnie are equally to blame for it.

Bonus: Someone who hasn't known Ron as long as Kim has, has enough respect for Ron to apologize to him, when Kim consistently fails to do so.

"Bonding" - Apologizes to Bonnie for an unintentional comment about Bonnie's weight, quicker than she's ever apologized to Ron, and more sincerely as well.

Bonus: Despite not actually intending to insult Bonnie, Kim still has enough respect for her to apologize. More than she usually does for Ron, her "best friend".

"Fashion Victim" - Apologizes to Monique for being jealous, but not the things she did that could have cost Monique her future in the fashion industry.

Bonus: If Monique was hassling Kim to break an NDA and trying to get a tech guy to find a loophole so she could, would we think Monique should be forgiven so easily?

And consistently doesn't apologize to Ron for dismissing his fears, concerns, and feelings.

So, Kim apologizing to Ron is very rare, almost non-existent.

It's been mentioned to me that some relationships don't require explicit apologies or that love means never having to say you're sorry.

I say that's stupid.

If you care about someone, and you hurt them, you should want to apologize and make things right. Even if it seems like you don't need to say it, you should still show you're remorseful in some way.

And Kim doesn't.

I actually have a lot of opinions about Totally Spies, but I won't get into those right now.

I will say, I noticed that there aren't a lot of fandom spaces dedicated to discussing Mandy and her friends.

(Or, if there are, I haven't found them yet.)

So, if that's something you're interested in, I suggest checking this out.

M.i.G. is LIVE, PEOPLE!

There's an actual Facebook group called M.i.G. (Mandy is Great) that's accepting members. If you want to extoll the virtues of the real star of the show, join at the link below:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2596797444042145/?ref=share&mibextid=NSMWBT

Also, unlike the M.i.G. in the show, this one's open to all!