“A Modern Retelling” Oh So You Mean Worse

@jedi-enthusiast

Okay so I’d like to apologize’

In reading this post and re-reading the original one, I have realized that I completely misunderstood & misconstrued what you were saying. And that the very detail of ‘your argument’ that I had issue with, was not the point you were actually making.

Beyond that though, I also found that in re-reading my comment, I found it very poorly phrased. And I can understand how it could be misconstrued as to carrying the implications that this post addresses. I was not I intending to say or imply in any capacity that ‘people shouldn’t call out antisemitic rhetoric in fandom’ or that “you shouldn’t compare real world discrimination to fictional stuff.”

I absolutely encourage recognizing and drawing those comparisons. Especially since Star Wars is art that was literally designed to reflect & respond to very real history, events, cultures, and people. Beyond that, all art created by people is responsive to our culture (and it’s biases), and trying to strip art of its real world context in an attempt to isolate it in fiction is not only wrong, but also impossible to actually do.

Antisemitism, like all forms of bigotry and discrimination is unfortunately present (through both conscience & unconscious bias) in every area of society, including fandom. Calling attention to it is essential to recognizing & dismantling (or at the very least disengaging from) systems of oppression and discrimination.

As you pointed out so clearly in this post, “[your] point in that post wasn’t- “since this is based off of a real world culture/religion, you can’t criticize it.”

And that is definitely what I had read and what I was attempting to caution against.

I think because the post started & ended with in your opinion, that “there aren't really any criticisms that can be made about the Jedi” I misunderstood that the Whole Post was not working to make that point. And failed to realize that each of the sections was not a building argument, but three completely separate points.

A while I do disagree with you that, “there aren't really any criticisms that can be made about the Jedi” —likely bc I accept Filoni & other non-Lucas canon — I absolutely agree with your point about antisemitism and bigoted rhetoric. We should always be aware and checking for our conscious and subconscious biases and making sure we are not perpetuating harm or spewing hateful rhetoric when handling fiction or anything else. (especially fiction that is reflective of minority groups)

So yeah, I am so fcking sorry. I completely misunderstood and then failed to communicate my own point effectively and ultimately blundered this entire thing.

Thank you for taking the time to put out this thoughtful response and for not allowing my mistake to go unchallenged.

@confusledqueer apologizes for not responding sooner, it’s been a busy couple days and—honestly—I forgot for a bit.

Moving on-

—————

Me equating some of the things that anti-Jedi people say to antisemitism and, sometimes, outright Nazi-esque rhetoric is not “wild” or “a stretch,” as you’re implying.

Justification of their genocide, denial that it actually was a genocide, a belief that the genocided party “caused” their own genocide, and a belief that they genocided party were wrong or “led astray” while one person was sent to make things right- (via either making them change their ways or outright destroying them/their culture) -are all things I’ve seen people say about the Jedi…

…but they’re also things that people have actually said about Jews.

Take the example I put in the post of someone denying that the Jedi Purge was actually a genocide, and how—by changing “Jedi” to “Judaism” and “Force-religions” to “Abrahamic Faiths”—it sounds verbatim to Holocaust denial.

Or, as another example, people claiming that the Jedi “kidnapped kids to brainwash them”…don’t you see how that sounds like Blood Libel?

So me pointing out that a lot of stuff anti-Jedi people say sounds like antisemitic rhetoric isn’t a stretch, not when a lot of it sounds verbatim to what people are saying with the rise of antisemitism and stuff they have said in the past.

—————

Now, I’m not Jewish, but it’s not just me, your neighborhood White Girl™️, who’s pointing this stuff out.

Actual Jewish people have pointed out the alarming similarities between anti-Jedi rhetoric and straight up antisemitism. So, if you wanna argue about- “you shouldn’t compare real world discrimination to fictional stuff” -then you should probably take that into account.

Go ahead and try telling Jewish Star Wars fans to stop calling out antisemitic rhetoric in the fandom, I’m sure that’ll go down real well.

I also find it hilarious that you’re telling me to be careful about the rhetoric I use in a thread about how I shouldn’t point out that some of the rhetoric other people spout is basically antisemitism rebranded.

And my point in that post wasn’t- “since this is based off of a real world culture/religion, you can’t criticize it.”

My point was- “since this is based off of a real world culture/religion then you need to be careful about how you criticize it, otherwise you might unconsciously be spouting bigoted beliefs and antisemitic rhetoric because you don’t recognize that that’s what it is because you’re saying it about a fictional culture.”

By all means, I get that some people just don’t like the Jedi, that’s their prerogative and we all have our own tastes.

Criticize them, if you feel like it, but don’t go around spouting rebranded antisemitism to do it. I’m sure you can come up with plenty of things to complain about them for without doing so.

—————

Now, I can understand why you might be worried about the slippery slope from this to shit like actual censorship—which, I think we can all agree, is a bad thing. Or how you might think criticizing this could lead to the whole “fandom purity” debate.

My thing is, it all comes down to does it actually harm people?

Perpetuating harmful stereotypes via saying stuff like the Jewish based characters “steal children,” or “lost their way,” or “they caused/deserved their genocide”—that does cause actual harm.

Think about why the “angry black man” stereotype or the “cheating bisexual” stereotype are bad and people- (rightly) -push back against them. It’s the same thing here.

Shipping a problematic ship, calling a fictional serial killer “babygirl,” writing about dark topics*, headcanoning characters as gay or trans…none of that is actively harming people.

(*obviously when writing about dark topics you should tag appropriately so people can avoid triggers, but that’s another topic for another day)

That’s the difference.

And, for the record, I think letting people spout bigotry just because they’re saying it about something fictional is the more dangerous mindset than calling it out.

Mando is so astonishingly accepting of the Child. Again and again, the kid does something weird or troubling or downright dangerous, and Mando is like, "well, we have to work that one out I guess".

Baby eats frogs? I mean, not my thing but uh...*files that away*. Pushes buttons that make alarms go off? Gently prevent him from doing it again. Nearly crashes the whole damn ship when left alone for a minute? Okay we really can't afford to leave you alone; let's go find the most patient dude I know. Force chokes Cara? Get his attention and explain why he needs to stop. Speaking as a parent, his patience is enviable.

He talks to the Child even though he can't talk back ("I told you this was a bad idea"). He's gentle with the child and moves slowly around him when possible. He even shows physical affection a couple of times (small caresses when the Child is sleeping or when he thinks the bounty hunters have him beat). That's particularly incredible given that physical affection has most likely not been a significant part of his life since his parents died, given what we've been shown of Mandalorian life.

Basically, it sure seems like, given that he's got next to no reason to know anything about parenting and definitely knows nothing about how specifically to care for whatever-the-Child-is, his instincts are really super good.

Describing Voices

Inspired by this old post

Words (and definitions) as text below cut.

Words to Describe a Voice

Adenoidal: pinched and nasal in tone

Alto: a low female voice, or a high male voice

Appealing: evoking interest, desire, or curiosity; attractive

Austere: severe, uncompromising, or strict; sober, or serious

Baritone: an intermediate male voice, between tenor and bass

Booming: a deep, resonant sound; prolonged or echoing

Breathy: audible, or excessive, emission of breath

Coarse: harsh, or grating; vulgar, obscene, or crude

Croaky: low-pitched and hoarse; croaking

Deep: low in pitch; sonorous tone

Ethereal: light, airy, or tenuous; extremely delicate or refined

Falsetto: an unnaturally, or artificially, high-pitched voice

Frail: delicate, weak, or fragile

Grating: irritating, unpleasant, harsh, discordant, or rasping

Gravelly: harsh and grating

Guttural: harsh, or throaty; sounds formed in back of mouth

High-Pitched: high in volume and/or tone

Hoarse: a low, harsh sound; husky; weak intensity and excessive breathiness

Honeyed: pleasantly soft; dulcet, or mellifluous; flattering, or ingratiating

Husky: a somewhat hoarse, semi-whispered vocal tone

Hypnotic: inducing, or tending to induce, sleep; soporific

Lilting: rhythmic; light and tripping

Lofty: elevated; arrogant or condescending

Low: quiet or deep

Luscious: sweet to excess; highly pleasing; satisfying; cloying

Lyrical: enthusiastic; effusive; melodious; musical

Majestic: lofty, imposing, stately, or grand

Mellow: mild and pleasant; relaxed; soft and rich

Melodic: sweet-sounding; musical

Mesmerizing: completely engrossing, captivating, or fascinating

Musical: resembling music; melodious; harmonious

Nasal: sounds, either partly or entirely, form the noise

Orotund: strong, full, rich, or clear; pompous or bombastic

Plaintive: sorrowful; melancholic; mournful

Plummy: rich, or mellowly, resonant

Raspy: harsh, grating, rasping, or irritating

Resonant: deep and full of resonance; reverberating

Rich: full, strong, deep, or vivid

Ringing: clear, resonant; reminiscent of bells

Scratchy: uneven, irritating, or grating

Shrill: high-pitched and piercing

Silvery: having a clear, ringing sound

Small: humble, weak, soft, or of little strength or force

Smoky: hazy, hoarse, husky, or raspy

Soft-Spoken: soft, gentle, or mild; persuasive

Soporific: causing, or tending to cause, sleep

Squeaky: sharp, shrill, high-pitched

Strong: robust; powerful; intense in quality

Sweet: pleasing to the ear; delicate, or agreeable

Tenor: an intermediate male voice between bass and alto

Thick: husky, or hoarse; not distinctly articulated

Thin: lacking fullness or volume; weak, or shrill

Throaty: guttural, husky, or hoarse

Tight: drawn, tense, or taut

Weak: lacking in force; soft, deficient, or quiet

Wheezy: with a whistling sound, and difficulty breathing

Words to Describe Tone of Voice

Affected: false, or feigned; pretending to possess

Arrogant: overbearing, assuming, insolently proud

Authoritative: positive, peremptory, or dictatorial

Bloodcurdling: arousing terror; horrifying

Boisterous: rough and noisy, rowdy, unrestrained; noisily jolly

Breaking: changing, or collapsing, suddenly

Bright: animated, lively, cheerful, clever, or witty

Brittle: fragile, frail, lacking warmth; having a sharp, tense quality

Cacophonous: having a harsh, or discordant sound

Caterwauling: long and wailing; a howl, or screech

Cheery: in good spirits; cheerful, or happy

Delicate: soft, or faint; subtle; tactful, or cautious

Dry: plain, unadorned, indifferent, or matter-of-fact

Dulcet: pleasant to the ear; melodious

Ear-Splitting: extremely harsh and irritating; loud

Enthusiastic: lively, ardent, eager, or passionate

Faint: soft, weak, feeble, or slight; lacking clearness or volume

Feeble: lacking in force, strength, volume, and distinctness

Flat: without modification or variation; without vitality

Forceful: powerful, vigorous, or effective

Frank: direct and unreserved; straightforward; sincere

Gruff: low and harsh; hoarse; rough, brusque, or surly

Hesitant: wavering, irresolute, timid, or unpersuasive

Insincere: lacking sincerity; sarcastic; hypocritical

Irreverent: lacking respect; flippant

Monotone: single tone, without harmony or variation

Patronizing: offensive and condescending

Pedantic: overly concerned with details and rules

Petulant: impatient irritation; annoyed

Piercing: loud, or shrill; sarcastic, or caustic

Pompous: ostentatious display of self-importance

Pontificating: to speak in a pompous or dogmatic manner

Pretentious: making an exaggerated outward show; ostentatious

Raised: increased in volume

Raucous: harsh, strident, or grating; rowdy, or disorderly

Respectful: showing deference; politeness

Rough: harsh to the ear; grating, or jarring

Sarcastic: using harsh or bitter derision or irony

Screeching: harshly shrill

Serious: grave, somber, earnest, or sincere

Singsong: rhythmically monotonous cadence or tone

Smug: contentedly confident in superiority or correctness

Snarky: testy or irritable; having a rudely critical tone

Snobby: condescending, patronizing; snobbish

Soft: low, or subdued; gentle and melodious

Sotto Voce: in a low, soft voice, so as not to be overheard

Stilted: stiffly dignified or formal; pompous

Strangled: choking, or stifled; gradually cut off

Sullen: gloomy, irritated, morose, or malignant

Trembling: shaking, as from fear, excitement, or weakness

Unapologetic: bold, and showing no regret

Upbeat: optimistic, happy, or cheerful

Warbling: with trills, quavers, or melodic embellishments

Wavering: unsteady, shaky, or fluctuating; begin to fail

Whiny: complaining, fretful, or cranky

Whisper: to speak with soft, hushed sounds

Effect vs. Affect

I just came up with a fun way to remember when to use effect or affect.

Think about: Affect-ion

You give affection and are thus effected positively.

Affect is the intrusion or the causation and effect is the solution.

The rain affects the garden by watering it. The garden is effected by the rain.

Affect refers to an action that will/is/has interrupted the previous norm. Effect refers to the act of being influenced by something else

Affect is given onto something

Effect is received from something

Andrea & Leo spring 2020 collection

I was today years old. That is disgusting.

No Child Left Behind is one of the worst things to ever be incentivized in schools. It was signed into law when I was 14. Reading Rainbow was my show as a kid. LeVar Burton played a big part in why I became an avid reader to date. The joy of it. It's an adventure around the globe and through different time periods without stepping on a plane or time machine.

Children parrot behavior. In grade school, I always wanted to read the same amount of books as my teachers (50 books) and managed to double that each year. Before No Child Left Behind, book fairs and Scholastic catalogs were a serious matter like your grandma's Fingerhut catalogs. Libraries were (and still are) a wonderland.

Reading comprehension and proficiency in schools has been declining for decades. A crisis. The joy of books isn't pushed anymore and I'm always saddened by it. It's one of the reasons why I post my book reviews and recommendations on here, as well as posts from others to encourage reading and (novel) writing. Kids will parrot your behavior while the education system sadly fails to return as that example.

Yeah reading’s hard sometimes lmao. Thanks for your understanding and being so chill.

I’m also glad we agree on the important bit <3

@confusledqueer apologizes for not responding sooner, it’s been a busy couple days and—honestly—I forgot for a bit.

Moving on-

—————

Me equating some of the things that anti-Jedi people say to antisemitism and, sometimes, outright Nazi-esque rhetoric is not “wild” or “a stretch,” as you’re implying.

Justification of their genocide, denial that it actually was a genocide, a belief that the genocided party “caused” their own genocide, and a belief that they genocided party were wrong or “led astray” while one person was sent to make things right- (via either making them change their ways or outright destroying them/their culture) -are all things I’ve seen people say about the Jedi…

…but they’re also things that people have actually said about Jews.

Take the example I put in the post of someone denying that the Jedi Purge was actually a genocide, and how—by changing “Jedi” to “Judaism” and “Force-religions” to “Abrahamic Faiths”—it sounds verbatim to Holocaust denial.

Or, as another example, people claiming that the Jedi “kidnapped kids to brainwash them”…don’t you see how that sounds like Blood Libel?

So me pointing out that a lot of stuff anti-Jedi people say sounds like antisemitic rhetoric isn’t a stretch, not when a lot of it sounds verbatim to what people are saying with the rise of antisemitism and stuff they have said in the past.

—————

Now, I’m not Jewish, but it’s not just me, your neighborhood White Girl™️, who’s pointing this stuff out.

Actual Jewish people have pointed out the alarming similarities between anti-Jedi rhetoric and straight up antisemitism. So, if you wanna argue about- “you shouldn’t compare real world discrimination to fictional stuff” -then you should probably take that into account.

Go ahead and try telling Jewish Star Wars fans to stop calling out antisemitic rhetoric in the fandom, I’m sure that’ll go down real well.

I also find it hilarious that you’re telling me to be careful about the rhetoric I use in a thread about how I shouldn’t point out that some of the rhetoric other people spout is basically antisemitism rebranded.

And my point in that post wasn’t- “since this is based off of a real world culture/religion, you can’t criticize it.”

My point was- “since this is based off of a real world culture/religion then you need to be careful about how you criticize it, otherwise you might unconsciously be spouting bigoted beliefs and antisemitic rhetoric because you don’t recognize that that’s what it is because you’re saying it about a fictional culture.”

By all means, I get that some people just don’t like the Jedi, that’s their prerogative and we all have our own tastes.

Criticize them, if you feel like it, but don’t go around spouting rebranded antisemitism to do it. I’m sure you can come up with plenty of things to complain about them for without doing so.

—————

Now, I can understand why you might be worried about the slippery slope from this to shit like actual censorship—which, I think we can all agree, is a bad thing. Or how you might think criticizing this could lead to the whole “fandom purity” debate.

My thing is, it all comes down to does it actually harm people?

Perpetuating harmful stereotypes via saying stuff like the Jewish based characters “steal children,” or “lost their way,” or “they caused/deserved their genocide”—that does cause actual harm.

Think about why the “angry black man” stereotype or the “cheating bisexual” stereotype are bad and people- (rightly) -push back against them. It’s the same thing here.

Shipping a problematic ship, calling a fictional serial killer “babygirl,” writing about dark topics*, headcanoning characters as gay or trans…none of that is actively harming people.

(*obviously when writing about dark topics you should tag appropriately so people can avoid triggers, but that’s another topic for another day)

That’s the difference.

And, for the record, I think letting people spout bigotry just because they’re saying it about something fictional is the more dangerous mindset than calling it out.

Current Status

let me assign you a gender

wade actually knows about both