No But I Think That If Billy Hargrove Ever Got The Chance To Meet Wayne Munson He’d Short Circuit?

Is it weird that I haven’t really been a fan of Stranger Things proper in years? Like, I consider myself:

1. Abused Rat Bastard Public Defender

2. Hapless Romantic for the Chaos and Complexity of Harringrove, Mungrove, Argilly, and Other Trash Rat Pairings

3. Fascinated Theorist of the Woefully Under-Explored Hargrove-Mayfield Family

…

…

9999999. Actual Fan of the Show

I feel like an old-timey prospector trying to divine gold nuggets from dirt. Because there are some truly interesting, worthwhile elements scattered around the place that I’ve seen other writers spin into incredible stories.

But overall… whatever the show has ultimately become doesn’t really do it for me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

To the many peoole who think Billy is a irredemable characther and completly beyond redepmtion or deserved to die. Cool. Have your opinion but I would suggest that those people never go into the field of child protection or working with abuse victims. The thing about abuse victims, especially child victims is that anger and lashing out are very normal behavioural reactions. They model what they see, they use toughness to protect themselves or to convince the world they don't care. It self protection and survial.

This is a kid who gets beaten by his dad, got left by his mother and never understood why she didnt take him too, left to the hell she was trying to escape from. Got a new family thrushed upon him where it felt like this new sister got treated better than him for no reason and at the time of his death was still living in that horrible situation. He was still a kid when he died. Now does that excuse his actions and they way he treated Max or any or the rest of themm No it doesn't. Is Max entitled to how she feels about him? Sure. She has her own trauma. But was he evil? Nah, he was a scared, lonely kid who never got to explore the world outside his abusive life. Who obviosuly has enough good in him to sacrifice himself at the end, who seemed like he never truly wanted to hurt anyone judging by how upset he was.

In my opinion the way many see Billy is sympathetic of how we treat kids going through these situations. It is easy to feel sympathetic and wanting to help the kid who is showing the signs we expect of trauma, the ones we feel just removing them from the environment and showing love will magically fix. Its easier to look at season 1 Eleven who hid and didnt speak, (also valid reactions to trauma) but the truth of it is that the Billy's are far more the norm in these situations than we think and I have worked with many and not a single one was irrredemable or beyond growing for the better and there is not a single kid who deserved what happneed to them. Billy is no differnt. I really think he could have grown as a characther and had the potential to be able to make up for his actions and forge a relationship with Max.

Anger and lashing out is one of the signs of abuse we we are taught to look for. So if you are someone who is abuse victim and sometimes the only way you can deal with it is to lash out and get angry just know you are not bad or beyond help, and I am proud of you for surviving the best way you onow how and for wanting to change. You are dealing with your situation the best you can and you can grow. Your are more than a sum of your worst moments. I ❤️

The characther of Billy deserved way better than Season 4. Why do that to him? Uhh!

Nothing makes me cackle more than Dacre Montgomery posting bts pics, not of ST, but the Elvis movie on the premiere of Vol 2 🤣

He really said 🖕once he saw the mistreatment of Billy’s character by the duffle bags.

Friendly reminder that Billy was teaching kids how to swim in Season 3. I can’t get over the image of Hawkins’ resident bad boy, standing waist deep in the shallow end of the pool as he teaches a kid with floaties around their arms how to swim.

The Silenced Victims Meta

Similar to both Severus Snape and Ben Solo, Billy got the same narrative treatment of an abuse victim who didn’t “cope properly” being punished by no one giving a shit except that one “special person” bullshit and I hate it.

Because what a backhanded ass concept. 

Harry for Severus: Harry is literally the only person alive who knows or cares about everything Severus did in the background for years to stop Voldemort. The only one who gave a shit about his own father’s bullying of Severus and showed to be disgusted with it.

Rey for Ben Solo: Again, the only person left alive who knows about Ben’s abuse by Snoke and him sacrificing his life for her. Hell, it’s not even known if Ray told anyone about it. She’s the only one who mourned his death (thanks novels) and saw him as a human and not a monster.

Max for Billy: Once again, only person that gives a shit that he’s dead (yeah know besides his abuser) only person that seems to care about his sacrifice. Oh, and let’s not forget the kick in the face line of “Your braver than you’re brother.” You know your brother who tried to fight off an interdimensional mind controlling monster for weeks alone. The one who sacrificed his life to stop it from, who knows taking over the world. But who cares about that, the writers clearly don’t.

So, have you guys noticed a fucked up pattern here?

Abuse victim who did not cope properly must sacrifice their life for some great or good, and even than what they did will never fully be recognized.

Even in death the narrative is still actively punishing them, by either lack of acknowledgement or their sacrifice being reduced. Similar to the very abuse they faced.

Notice something else these three all have in common? No support system. No one to turn to, no one to acknowledge their abuse, no one to help them. And yet this itself isn’t even acknowledged or even brought to attention in the story.

Now in the end am I saying all these writers planned this narrative? No

But am I pointing out how strangely common this formula is? Yes

Because it gives a message. Those who react badly to their abuse via anger or bad coping mechanisms deserve the bare minimum in storytelling.

They don’t get redemption arcs. You don’t get to see them heal, see them progress. Because they’re sacrifice was all they were in the end and even that won’t be acknowledged. Even in death they’re silenced once again.

TikTokers saying "oh you love billy but hate argyle" uh what 😃

I've literally never met a billy fan who said anything bad about Argyle. I mean... I love both characters. This narrative is getting old fast.

I don't know where they got these ideas from, honestly.

So if you like... a fictional character... who happens to be a teenage ab*se victim... then you're automatically racist and/or homophobic?

If you want to really get into this, I think you mean IT character Henry Bowers, and he and Billy are not the same. The Duffers wanted them to be, but fortunately Dacre made sure that didn't happen.

You're forgetting that ST is literally a bunch of Stephen King references without substance or originality. The Duffers wanted Billy to be Henry Bowers. If you think Billy was bad, I suggest you read IT (the movies are available too in case y'all don't know how to fucking read).

Au where Severus accidentally walks in on his mother and Fleamont Potter in bed.

I feel so gross whenever fanon plays off Snape's parental issues as an excuse that he actively uses, in-universe, to make Lily feel sorry for him and overlook his bad behavior.

Not only is it out-of character for him, the way it's often portrayed gives off the impression that Snape's account of the severity of the situation is unreliable — when the only context his abusive home life is ever brought up is when he's being emotionally manipulative for personal gain, isn't it then likely that he would be exaggerating the situation?

A really prominent trait of canon Snape is that he doesn't like being pitied. He actually hates being seen as a victim. He would much rather be seen as a terrible person than as a hurt, vulnerable one. It's the reason he ends up calling Lily mudblood in the first place. It's why he'd sooner join the Death Eaters than reach out for help.

IDK — Just the fact that some antis apparently acknowledge Snape's canonically abusive childhood, but then spin it into something he consistently takes advantage of to manipulate others for sympathy and forgiveness to the point it comes off as deceptive, when that's actually pretty much the opposite of how he acts in canon... it makes my skin crawl.

As a Billy fan, I agree with your stance. I can understand where the distain for Susan comes from though. Us fans tend to feel angry on behalf of this scared and abused boy who’s other primary caregiver didn’t help him when he needed it most. But, I think it’s important to remember abusive households breed complicated dynamics as well. Perhaps Susan was scared that Neil might turn his wrath on her and her daughter if she dared question his “parenting methods” or make the situation worse for Billy if he had to have “a woman come to his rescue”. Neil obviously had the upper hand in physical strength and financial power, so he could make everyone pay dearly if she ever intervened. Do I think she still had a duty towards Billy as his stepmother to try and do more to protect him? Yes. But fear is a powerful tool. And quite effective in keeping people under your vicinity in line. Sympathy should be extended to Susan as well when discussing the members of the Hargrove-Mayfield household. Just my opinion.

I don’t care about Billy discourse, I don’t hate Billy haters or sympathizers. I just don’t get why Billy sympathizers hate Susan so much, like you will write a whole dissertation on how Billy’s abuse affects how he acts, but when Susan shows up your armchair psychology degree suddenly goes away and the woman too scared to stand up to her abusive husband is actually just a callous bitch who loves to see her stepson in pain ig. Like she is clearly not perfect but oh my god

i know we sadly didn’t get a chance to see how billy and max’s relationship had evolved from s2 to s3, not even a single scene between them without billy being already flayed but i do think we get glimpses in s3 of how things had progressed between them. 

before learning that anything could be wrong with billy there’s a lightness in her speech when he’s mentioned, which didn’t occur during s2. this, for me, is the most significant change:

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