As An Arthuriana Junkie Who Tried To Secede From The United States Of America In Fourth Grade, This Made

The Grail Heroine leading Galahad to the ship, where Percival and Bors wait

Stained glass by Veronica Whall for King Arthur’s Great Halls at Tintagel

Stained glass by Heaton, Butler & Bayne, depicting the female knight Britomart from Spenser's The Faerie Queene, at Cheltenham Ladies' College.

Less than a day left. Wow, this blew up (by my standards). I guess a lot of people have opinions about how they’d die if they were knights. As some have pointed out in the tags, Lancelot and Gawain should probably be statistically higher, and (evil) magic ladies should be lower. I find the current highest statistic kind of funny; apparently, I am one of few who would be killed by their own family blood feud instead of someone else’s. Were it a question of my Tumblr namesake, the answer would be different. I’m no expert, but I don’t know of any account of Taliesin’s death, apart from an implicit death in the Battle of Camlann if he’s still alive then. Then again, he’s a bard, not a knight, unlike his son, who is definitely set to die at Camlann.

Camlann. I forgot to include being killed at Camlann (or in any battle against people other than Lancelot, Breuse, and the Orkneys) as an option. Despite the fact that that’s how a very large number of the knights die.

Darn.

what do you love most about kay which you would love to see in a story, like what would you find would make a good depiction of sir kay into a great depiction of kay

In order for Kay to be adequately sharp-tongued he needs to be sharp-minded.

Far too many Kays in retellings are just mean or crass in the basest sense. Phobic, cussing, and frankly come off as a dumb bully with no depth. Even when medlit Kay borders on a bully, he’s never stupid. He needs to be clever enough to have a quick clap back, to invent a witty nickname on the spot, call out Gawain or Gareth or Lancelot on their hypocrisy when no one else will.

Unintelligent Kay holds no interest for me and it’s a lazy way to write him that’s become all too common (not on tumblr, thankfully). It started with The Sword in The Stone (1963) movie and it’s gotten worse from there.

Other than that, I want to see Kay resembling his Mabinogion characterization with the powers and stuff. He does have Otherworld powers in the Lavinia Collins books, but then, that requires reading the Lavinia Collins books but I don’t recommend whatsoever. There are many historical fiction examples from Henry Treece or Edward Frankland, but they don’t have magic. I want the magic!

Additionally I want Kay who is both Arthur’s foster brother and his seneschal, simultaneously. This is more common in books, retellings are pretty good about that. Movies are slacking! Only a handful where he gets to be both!!

Lastly I want his close relationship with Bedwyr restored. Again, there are a decent amount of retellings I could point to as examples that do a great job with that. But I want Gawain too! And Lancelot! And Guinevere! And Ragnelle! Even Gareth!! The dream team. Kay can’t just be this outsider with no friends, that’s not true to medlit at all. They love him! Arthur loves him!!!!! SHOW IT TO ME!!!

This type of Kay is definitely here on tumblr. Seems bloggers understand the assignment! I see this Kay frequently in art and stories passed around here and that’s great. I’ve also attempted to include this sort of Kay in my books. But I want even more of him! He is the character ever!!!

💚😏🗡️ <for arthuriana ask game =)

Favorite quest/story arc:

That’s a tough one. Basic as it is, one of my favorites would have to be the Grail quest. It’s been told in so many different ways, it has so much potential for interpretation and reinterpretation, and if you look around, its influence is everywhere in pop culture. I also really like Galahad, Percival, and the Grail Heroine (though reading T. H. White left me with an anti-Bors bias I’ve never been able to shake).

Gawain: 

The way I got into Arthuriana was a seventh-grade GVC assignment where I had to write an alliterative paragraph, drew “G” out of a hat, started writing about Gawain, never got to a stopping point, decided to write a novel, decided I had to do research for the novel…you get the idea. He isn’t my all-time favorite, but I like Gawain. I find his revenge quest interesting when it’s done well, but I think that it’s become too ubiquitous. There are so many stories about him and there’s so much more to him than the man in The Once and Future King whose main traits are “angry” and “Scottish” (though I do love it when he calls Galahad “yon lily laddie”).

Who Are You Betting On In This Month's Tournament?

I think it depends on which canon it is and who’s in town. If I could choose from every Arthurian character I know of, I would say the Knight of the Lantern, hands down. At the start of The Story of the Crop-Eared Dog, he defeats and ties up everyone on Arthur’s hunting trip who he thinks is worth fighting—which adds up to well over seven thousand knights—in one afternoon. Later on, he’s defeated by his older brother Alastrann (who’s in monster-dog form), but when their father dies, Alastrann becomes the King of India, and he can’t very well casually jaunt over to the far end of another continent when he has a country to run. The Knight of the Lantern also returns to India, but he has unparalleled magical powers and less responsibility, so he could probably swing by for a tournament.

Thanks for the ask!

Palamedes’ family in Arthuriana

Palamedes, oh, Sir Palamedes. We all know this man. Either he’s crying in front of wells or he’s on the hunt for the Questing Beast. The question is: how much do we know about his family? Some of us know that his father’s name is Esclabor and that he has a brother named Safir. In other Arthurian narratives, he has more family. As such, I did a deep dive by researching several different Arthuriana, three from the thirteenth century, one from the fifteen century, two from the sixteenth century and two from the 20th century.

The first one that we’re exploring is “Guiron le Courtois” from the Palamedes romances, written in the 13th century by an unknown author. In the narrative, around the time of the crowning of Arthur as King, the Roman emperor throws a party because his daughter got married. The emperor is brought tributes of different kinds, including people to be his slaves. A young man between 24 to 30 years old called Esclabor, his wife, several of their children (including a two-month-old Palamedes, who is named after his grandfather) and Esclabor’s brother, Arsafar, are brought from Babylon to the Roman emperor (Cadioli & Lecomte, 2021; Löseth, 1890).

It just so turns out that at that exact same moment someone attempts to kill the Roman emperor and Esclabor saves his life. More events happen, but the point is that Esclabor earns his and his family’s freedom. Esclabor asks permission to the emperor for leave so he can through Logres and then disembark at Northumberland. The emperor grants his request with much regret since he has come to consider him as a son. The family arrives safe and sound to their destination. On the way to Logres, they meet King Pellinor who is out on a hunt and he and Arsafar save his life, when two knights try to kill the king. This causes for them to have favor in King Arthur’s court (Cadioli & Lecomte, 2021; Löseth, 1890).

On the other hand, in another version of “Guiron le Courtois”, it is mentioned that Palamedes has a sister named Florine, whose lover, the Knight of the Castle of the Three Roses, died of love for her. He leaves his own eulogy carved in a marble staircase, talking of whose lover he was and for some knight to avenge him (Lathuillère, 1966).

On the other hand, in the Post-Vulgate of the “Lancelot-Grail”, written by several unknown authors in the 13th century, during the Quest for the Holy Grail, Galahad and Bors lodge at Esclabor’s home. Esclabor narrates to them that he is from the area of Galilee and as a young man he decided to travel to Britain to see and test how great the knights of the area were. He arrives during the start of Arthur’s reign. He stays in the court for a bit, everyone assuming he is a Christian. One day, they bring a beautiful young lady, whose father was a giant the knights killed (Asher, 1996).

They tell her that if she becomes a Christian, they’ll give her riches and someone to marry. She refuses, telling them that she would rather die. No one asks for her until Esclabor does to the amazement of Arthur. Arthur asks him what he is going to do with the young lady since she isn’t a Christian. Esclabor proceeds to tell the king that he’s a pagan just like the young woman and that that’s fine by him. It earns him the nickname “the Unknown” since Arthur thought he knew him, but it turns out he didn’t at all (Asher, 1996).

Esclabor and the young lady go on to marry. They have twelve sons, Palamedes being the eldest. One afternoon, during family lunch time, they all hear about the Questing Beast. Esclabor decides to hunt it down, alongside his eleven sons. Palamedes can’t make it because he’s sick at the time. The quest doesn’t well since Palamedes’ eleven younger brothers die at the hand of the Questing Beast, while Esclabor is badly wounded. This makes Palamedes swear that he’ll hunt down the Questing Beast to avenge his brothers (Asher, 1996).

Similarly, the 13th century “Prose Tristan” written by Luce de Gat and Helie de Boron, is in agreement with the Post-Vulgate in mentioning that Palamedes is the son of Esclabor and that he has eleven brothers. Moreover, he uses a black shield and wields two swords, which makes distinguishable (Curtis, 1994).

In contrast, in Thomas Malory’s “Le Morte d’Arthur” from the 15th century, Palamedes is stated to have only two brothers. Their names are Saphir and Segwarides (whose wife Tristan sleeps with, which similar with the Prose Tristan but Segwarides isn't Palamedes' brother in that narrative) (Malory, 2009).

Moreover, in the 16th century Spanish Arthuriana “Tristán de Leonís y el rey don Tristán el joven, su hijo”, Palomades (as Palamedes is called) is mentioned to have two brothers, Garacón and Separ (Safir), which coincides with Malory but the name of one of the brothers is different. In the second part, Palomades is still hung up on Iseo (Isolde) a decade or so later after she died. He sees that Iseo’s daughter of the same name resembles her mother a lot and decides to kidnap her so he can have the chance he didn’t have with her mother. A relative of “Tristán el joven” kills Palomades in order to rescue young Iseo from her captor. Naturally, Palomades’ brother Garacón appears to avenge his brother, and he gets killed (Cuesta Torre, 1997).

Then, comes Palemedes' cousin Salandro to avenge his cousins and he gets killed as well. Afterwards, Salandro's brother Amagrafo comes to avenge his brother and cousins and gets killed too. “Tristán el joven” hangs their shields and arms for exhibition as an example of what happens to those who come fight against him or something like that (Cuesta Torre, 1997).

Earlier in the same narrative, it is mentioned that Palomades is a descendant of Ebalato, whose shield belonged to “Joseph Abarimatía.” Because of the shield’s miraculous properties, Ebalato becomes a Christian. However, he’s in incarcerated for becoming a Christian and he dies in prison. His wife (whose father is called Palomades) gives birth to twins, whom she raises as Christians. However, their descendants return to their ancestors’ religion (Cuesta Torre, 1997).

Ebalato is the Spanish equivalent of Evalach, a companion of Joseph of Arimathea in the Vulgate. He is also called Evalach the Unknown, just like Esclabor is also called the Unknown later in the Post-Vulgate narration (Chase, 1993; Asher, 1996).

In addition, Evalach was gifted by Joseph of Arimathea a shield that belonged to him (Chase, 1993), which is similar to the Spanish narrative. The mention of Evalach in this narrative essentially makes Palamedes distantly related to Lancelot and Galahad since their ancestor Nascien was the brother of Sarrassinte, who was married to Evalach (Chase, 1993). The only thing that differs between narratives is the death of Evalach, since Ebalato dies in prison, while in the Vulgate Evalach dies centuries later after he meets Galahad who gets the shield of his ancestor (Cuesta Torre, 1997; Chase 1993).

Lastly, in the Vulgate, it is mentioned that Segurades has a nephew called Canagues, who was his squire (Carroll, 1993). Meanwhile, in the 16th century Portuguese Arthuriana “Memorial das Proezas da Segunda Tavola Redonda” written by Jorge Ferreira de Vasconcelos, it is mentioned that “Monsolinos de Sulfocia” is the son of Palamedes and that he uses dual swords like his father. Moreover, he has a cousin called “Leonces de Renel”(De Vasconcelos, 1867).

If all these sources are conflated together, it can be thus deduced that:

Esclabor and his wife are parents to twelve sons and one daughter. Out of the twelve sons, only four are mentioned by name which are Palamedes, Safir, Segurades and Garacón. Their daughter is Florine.

Arsafar is Escablor’s younger brother. His sons are named Salandro and Amagrafo.

Palamedes is the eldest son (or the youngest one). He has a son named Monsolinos of Suffolk.

Safir is most likely the father of Canagues, who later becomes his uncle Segurades’ squire. Meanwhile, Leonces de Renel is most likely the son of either Segurades or Garacón.

The name Palamedes is a family name, seeing as there was an ancestor named Palamedes. In turn, Esclabor’s father was named Palamedes, whose grandson was also named Palamedes as well.

Palamedes is a descendant of Evalach and Sarrassinte, sister of Nascien. That makes him a distant relative of Lancelot and Galahad who are descendants of Nascien.

References

Asher, M. (1996). The Post-Vulgate, part II: The Quest for the Holy Grail. In N. J. Lacy (Ed.), Lancelot-Grail: The Old French Arthurian Vulgate and Post-Vulgate in Translation: Vol. V (pp. 110–289). Garland Publishing, Inc.

Cadioli, L., & Lecomte, S. (2021). Il ciclo di Guiron le Courtois. Romanzi in prosa del secolo XIII. Roman de Meliadus. Parte prima. S.I.S.M.E.L. Edizioni Del Galluzzo.

Carroll, C. W. (1993). The History of the Holy Grail. In N. J. Lacy (Ed.), Lancelot-Grail: The Old French Arthurian Vulgate and Post-Vulgate in Translation: Vol. II (pp. 115–238). Garland Publishing, Inc.

Chase, C. J. (1993). The History of the Holy Grail. In N. J. Lacy (Ed.), Lancelot-Grail: The Old French Arthurian Vulgate and Post-Vulgate in Translation: Vol. I (pp. 1–163). Garland Publishing, Inc.

Cuesta Torre, M. L. (1997). Tristán de Leonís y el rey don Tristán el joven, su hijo: (Sevilla, 1534). Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México.

Curtis, R. L. (1994). The Romance of Tristan: The Thirteenth-century Old French “prose Tristan.” Oxford University Press.

Ferreira De Vasconcelos, J. (1867). Memorial das Proezas da Segunda Tavola Redonda (M. Bernardes Branco, Ed.; 2nd ed.). Typ. do Panorama.

Lathuillère, R. (1966). Guiron le courtois: Étude de la tradition manuscrite et analyse critique. Librairie Droz.

Löseth, E. (1890). Le roman en prose de Tristan, le roman de Palamède et la compilation de Rusticien de Pise: Analyse critique d’après les manuscrits de Paris (E. Bouillon, Ed.). Macon, Protat Frères, Imprimeurs.

Malory, T. (2009). Sir Thomas Malory’s Morte Darthur: A New Modern English Translation Based on the Winchester Manuscript (D. Armstrong, Ed.). Parlor Press LLC.

The Passing of Arthur by Sidney Harold Meteyard

So the only English translation I've been able to find online of the Irish Arthurian romance Eachtra Mhelóra agus Orlando ("The Adventures of Melora and Orlando") is on this old website, which I'll link here:

http://web.archive.org/web/20121222212746/http://www.literatefreedom.org/prae-9.4.htm#Adventure

However, I've copy-pasted the text and footnotes onto this PDF for anyone who wants to finally read it:

Hope both links work for everyone. Let me know if they don't.

Also let me know if you want me to adjust the format of the PDF if there are any readibility issues.

Lucan's doing well post camlann i guess

for the ask game, 💚💛😤🗡️ !!!

I started writing this and realized that my quest/story arc answer could also work for the sibling dynamic one and vice versa, so the first two are both for both.

I’m very fond of The Story of the Crop-Eared Dog—which is to Arthurian lit what Lilly Onakuramara is to the Barden Bellas, only less important—and its weird anticlimax in which the sidekick shows up and reveals that he’s achieved their key goals by killing a vast number of people, including all of the naked monks on the Island of Naked Monks, then defeating but sparing the main antagonist. (The antagonist—the Knight of the Lantern, henceforth known as Lanny—is Alastrann’s—the sidekick’s—younger half-brother. Alastrann’s earlier speeches concerning Lanny can be briefly summarized as, “My baby brother is sooo talented and amazing, but he destroys everything he touches, so I’m going to kill all his friends and steal his stuff and hope that solves the issue.” Somehow, this works). There’s a lot more to unpack there, but it’s a complicated mess. A charming complicated mess.

Arthur’s sudden ascent to greatness, and the barriers that likely creates between the (formerly unwitting) foster brothers, has its own sort of pathos, but their dynamic in Cullwch and Olwen is heartbreaking and seems to get overlooked. (They aren’t referred to as brothers or foster brothers there, but I’ll count it anyway). They have a falling out over an extemporaneous song with which Arthur ridicules Cai’s tactics on a specific killing errand. It might be meant as a joke, but it angers Cai so much that he leaves, never to return or aid Arthur again. The twist is this: it’s already been said that when Cai is killed, Arthur avenges him by killing not only his killer but also his killer’s brothers. Arthur’s vengeance is brutal and unfair and a mark of extreme grief; clearly, he never stopped caring about his friend/brother, even though he was never able to make up with him in life. 

Your Most Specific Nitpick About Your Fave (anything from "Gareth would not have a beard" to "this is basically a different guy"):

One of my faves is Dinadan, and an adaptational/fandom nitpick of mine is when he gets shipped with random people. I personally headcanon him as aroace. There are some texts where I can understand reading him as being gay and having feelings for Tristan, but writing about, say, him and Mordred makes no sense to me and I find it aggravating. Aroaces (and aspec people in general) have such little representation as it is.

Who Are You Betting On In This Month's Tournament?

Assuming that Lanny is out of town, I’ll place a small bet on Dinadan. He doesn’t win often, so I could get great odds for him, and when he does win, it’s very funny. I also really like Dinadan.