I’ve seen a lot of hate going around regarding the situation these two are in. Sometimes, in defense of one goat someone viciously bashes the other. It doesn’t have to be like that, though.
It seems like a lot of people are condemning her dislike of Asgore in their defense of him. But…I think we should try to understand her point of view too.
Why is she so mad at Asgore?
It is heavily implied the children he killed were her children, in the same way Frisk is. Maybe for years.
It’s safe to say Toriel didn’t just nab these kids’ shoes and send them on their way. Some or most of them stayed long enough to need to new shoes and grow out of their old ones (or they’d still be wearing them when they left the Ruins) - a process that takes months or years depending on their age. Their old ones were put in the bin. They left, and died in their new ones. Rinse and repeat.
Added to this is the photo frame in the children’s room. This frame is empty; if it were meant for her old family in New Home, it would still have them in it or not be there at all. It’s empty because the children, the humans who occupied the room before, in the picture died.
They were not just children that were murdered; they were her children. The same way Frisk is.
This isn’t just two exes disagreeing over policy; from her point of view, he killed six of her children (only one way into the underground, and that’s the hole in the ruins; Chara fell there too) and was starting on a seventh. It’s understandable that she can’t forgive him.
But did he kill the other 6 humans?
Unfortunately, yes.
The humans made it to Asgore, but they didn’t make it past him.
It seems the other childrens’ items were lost along the way, and scattered over decades, not markers of the childrens’ graves; it’s mentioned that the “faded ribbon” was dropped down a hole. The other items likely met a similar fate; however, all the humans made it Asgore at the end. They did not make it past him.
Why did she take Chara when she left?
She didn’t do it out of spite, but believed that they deserved a proper burial.
Why didn’t she leave the barrier, and kill six people herself?
Toriel never wanted that plan to go through.
Toriel never wanted humans to be killed to break the barrier, even to free her kingdom. She would never have killed anyone to make it happen.
She didn’t call him out because she thought he should have left the barrier to kill more humans, she called him out because he gave everyone false hope and killed people; if four humans died and no others arrived then monsters would still be trapped forever, but the humans would still be dead.
Even when she’s facing down someone who killed her children, she cannot allow someone to take his life. She didn’t just come here to save Frisk; she came to save Asgore. No lives could be taken to exit the barrier. The value of life was absolute.
…and I think we should try to understand Asgore’s plight as well.
He declared war in a moment of devastation.
When Asgore declared war on humanity, he had just lost two children. He watched his son die from the wounds the humans inflicted on him, when he didn’t raise a finger to harm them. Humans who locked them in a hole to rot for thousands of years.
…and then couldn’t take it back.
The kingdom was in despair too; they had lost their prince, they lost their hope for reconciliation with the humans with Chara. He promised his entire kingdom he’d take the humans’ souls and free them.
He saved his kingdom from despair, and by the time his own grief had settled it was too late to take his promise back. He couldn’t take away their hopes and dreams.
He had a duty far beyond six souls of the humans - who doomed them to their situation and murdered his own son after he cared for one of their children - to the thousands of people in his own kingdom. It would have been justified for him to leave the barrier and kill six more humans after he got the first soul, right?
Even after everything the humans did, he still valued their lives.
This is why he didn’t leave the barrier after getting the first soul.
He couldn’t state outright that he didn’t want to kill them to the kingdom, and plunge them back into the horror of being trapped in the dark forever. But he still hoped to never kill another one, even after they kept coming. Even after the sixth. If he could avoid killing even one, he would. To this end, he even instructed his scientists to find any other way to break the barrier, without a single other person having to die.
For the record, here’s how he looks at Frisk when he sees the very last soul he needs to free his people from millennia of imprisonment that they never deserved:
He takes two steps back and stares at Frisk in utter horror. There’s a long silence. He actually panicked when he saw Frisk.
And how many times does he try to to spare your life?
Translation: Please don’t come into the next room.
“If not, I understand. I am not ready either.”
Translation: Please turn back.
There’s still time.
And when he finally does fight you…
He holds himself way, way back. He has the ability to one-shot you. He has the potential to not get a scratch on him from Frisk’s tiny LV 1 self. What’s going on here?
Because they are made of magic, monsters’ bodies are attuned to their SOUL. If a monster doesn’t want to fight, its defenses will weaken. And the crueler the intentions of our enemies, the more their attacks will hurt us.
This is how much he doesn’t want to fight you. Along with holding back his last attack, so you can only ever die if you’re already at 1 HP.
So why’d he destroy the mercy button?
He doesn’t really want to win either. And in the event he loses, he doesn’t want mercy. If Flowey doesn’t show up…
He dismisses his idea of living with Frisk peacefully as a fantasy, says Frisk and his other human child “have the same look of hope in your eyes”, thinks Frisk could be the Angel of the delta rune prophecy, and believes they can free everyone from outside the barrier. He then takes his own life.
He was not wrong to want to spare the humans.
Despite their souls being necessary to free everyone, It’s important to understand the stakes here. With each successive soul, he is not just looking down at the possibility of taking another child’s life when they show up. If he gets 7, he will no longer have an excuse to stay below ground. He will have to break it. He will then have to destroy the lives of billions to let his people on the surface.
but if one shows up….
If a human shows up in his castle, it is because they want to leave. The confrontation is then inevitable, because they have to take his soul to do that. He never hunts them down. But if it comes to fight, he has a duty to fight and try to take their soul, for the entire kingdom. Their hopes are riding on him. So he killed them.
…and the barrier really couldn’t have been be broken without 6 of them, and the souls of every monster underground except Napstablook.
I think it’s possible to appreciate the agonizing position Asgore was put in, as a person so gentle he couldn’t even painlessly take the lives of humans, who killed his son and trapped them underground, with the hopes of the entire kingdom, and the destruction of an entire species, resting on his shoulders to do it.
I think it’s also possible to appreciate the position of Toriel, who has lost several of her children to his hands, and can’t forget it or forgive it, but still believes he deserves mercy.
It’s no competition. Please love both of the goat parents. Neither are bad people and they’ve been through too much.
Bonus: Are they ever ever getting back together?
They are not ever ever getting back together.
…but he’s still smiling in the end, isn’t he?
If your plot feels flat, STUDY it! Your story might be lacking...
Stakes - What would happen if the protagonist failed? Would it really be such a bad thing if it happened?
Thematic relevance - Do the events of the story speak to a greater emotional or moral message? Is the conflict resolved in a way that befits the theme?
Urgency - How much time does the protagonist have to complete their goal? Are there multiple factors complicating the situation?
Drive - What motivates the protagonist? Are they an active player in the story, or are they repeatedly getting pushed around by external forces? Could you swap them out for a different character with no impact on the plot? On the flip side, do the other characters have sensible motivations of their own?
Yield - Is there foreshadowing? Do the protagonist's choices have unforeseen consequences down the road? Do they use knowledge or clues from the beginning, to help them in the end? Do they learn things about the other characters that weren't immediately obvious?
Rereading Trash of the Count’s Family has really given me insight into the perspectives of the people around him. The first time is like walking in blind, because Cale describes their expressions and actions- but the narrative doesn’t dive into their emotions or past, so we’re left in the dark for why their expressions and actions are significant.
Very happy about finally understanding the depth of these characters, and the hidden meaning to Cales actions and how it affects them.
The Power of Silence in Dialogue
We often think of dialogue as something that’s just about what characters say, but let’s talk about what they don’t say. Silence can be one of the most powerful tools in your writing toolbox. Here’s why:
When characters leave things unsaid, it adds layers to their interactions. Silence can create a tension that’s so thick you could cut it with a knife. It shows things are happening beneath the surface—the real conversation is happening in what’s left unspoken.
“So, you’re leaving, huh?” He didn’t look up from the table, his fingers tracing the rim of his glass, slow and deliberate. “Yeah.” “Guess I should’ve expected this.” (Silence.) “You’re not mad?” “I’m not mad,” she said, but the way her voice broke was louder than anything she'd said all night.
Sometimes silence can heighten the drama, creating a pause where the reader feels like something big is about to happen. You don’t always need words to convey that sense of dread or anticipation.
They stood there, side by side, staring at the door that had just closed behind him. “You should’ve stopped him.” She didn’t answer. “You should’ve said something.” The room felt colder. “I couldn’t.” (Silence.)
Sometimes, saying nothing can have the biggest emotional punch. Silence gives the reader a chance to interpret the scene, to sit with the feelings that aren’t being voiced.
He opened the letter and read it. And then, without saying a word, he folded it back up and placed it in the drawer. His fingers lingered on the wood for a long time before he closed it slowly, too slowly. “Are you okay?” He didn’t answer.
Silence isn’t just a pause between dialogue—it’s a powerful tool for deepening emotional tension, building anticipation, and revealing character. Next time you write a scene, ask yourself: what isn’t being said? And how can that silence say more than the words ever could?
There will BE no friendship. (And yes I'm still not dead and still have intents on coming back here)
I have likely not added many that I've reblogged to this list. Please feel free to roam my blog and/or ask/message me to add something you'd like to see on this list!
Look by @writers-potion
Voices by @saraswritingtipps
Show, Don't Tell by @lyralit
5 Tips for Creating Intimidating Antagonists by @writingwithfolklore
How To (Realistically) Make a Habit of Writing by @byoldervine
Let's Talk About Misdirection by @deception-united
Tips to Improve Character Voice by @tanaor
Stephen King's Top 20 Rules for Writers posted by @toocoolformedschool
Fun Things to Add to a Fight Scene (Hand to Hand Edition) by @illarian-rambling
Questions I Ask My Beta Readers by @burntoutdaydreamer
Skip Google for Research by @s-n-arly
Breaking Writing Rules Right: Don't Write Direct Dialogue by @septemberercfawkes
International Clothing
Too Ashamed of Writing To Write by @writingquestionsanswered
"Said" is Beautiful by @blue-eyed-author
Cale is so ready to take on everything.
I’m rereading the heart scene and, just- his life as Kim Rok Soo had such an impact on how he handles pressure, it’s actually sad. When he was KRS, people relied on him. Heavily. As the team leader, people saw him as a life line.
He never took breaks, he put himself in danger and sacrificed his well-being by using his abilities (for example, Instant), and as we hear later on- he had a 0% mortality rate. When people around him were weak, he became strong in order to overcome it. Nobody died when he became the Team Leader.
And in the world they lived in- yes! I’m not surprised at all that people latched onto him. No matter how much they care about him, they couldn’t help but allow him to save them. Over and over again.
So Cale had this expectation for himself too! When others give up -> he does not. In front of impossible tasks, he rises up, because that’s how it should be. How could someone who had so little as a child- no parents, no friends, no stability or safety or reliability- how could he possibly give up what he’s managed to attain? How could he let his friends get hurt when he knows that he could be hurting instead?
And then he becomes Cale, and he relaxes. His new companions are strong, and he’s not going to be with them for very long anyway. He will slack off, chill out, and take his hands off the wheel.
But he can’t- he just can’t stop helping them. Like an addiction, he helps Choi Han get a connection to Ron and Beacrox. Then he saves Raon. He helps Lock, Amiru, Mary, Alberu, Queen Litana. It’s fucking impulsive. It’s for his own benefit but he tangles himself into the story because tampering with Fate is a fucking side hobby for him.
Then he develops relationships and friends- and when he sees danger approaching he stands up against it like a solid wall. Over and over again.
And, what? He naturally expects the people behind him to stay behind that wall. To listen to him and help, but to stay safe in the long run. He expects them back off when something looks impossible. Because- well, he’s right here isn’t he? Overcoming the impossible is second nature for him!
But the people around him… aren’t standing by passively, like they did when he was KRS. When he was KRS they let him protect them for 15 years. Then he’s Cale Henituse and they don’t. They learn from him. They learn to stand up against the unpredictable and the indomitable. They see him and learn.
They aren’t happy about his sacrifices, but he tells them to be full and content and to eat well… so they listen. For a while. They understand wisdom and they take his words and learn their limitations.
Right until he stabs himself in the heart. What the fuck?! Biggest hypocrite in history right??! Can’t trust this guy to not bleed and sacrifice himself for shit!!!
So they angrily push aside his worry and their limits and they decide that it’s THEIR turn to protect him. Even against a GOD, Cale has shown them that nothing is impossible so they’re going to turn the tables and THEY’RE going to be the ones to cough blood!!
This scene is so heart wrenching, but it’s Cales disbelief that hurts the most. He’s fucking stunned. He’s someone who can’t even imagine the lengths that a person would go for him. He’s a person who protects without ever expecting to receive that same effort.
Sure, he knows he’ll be protected. He’s not naive. But he puts 200% and expects 50-100%. He goes above and beyond, but prepares for average. Prepares for lackluster.
So when everyone tries to push him aside to protect him? He- he doesn’t even notice their efforts! It’s like looking for a leaf in a forest, but he’s supposed to be looking at the entire forest. Why would he think that they would give him a forest’s worth of leaves? He’s oblivious. So he looks for a single leaf.
Then they really do push him back and protect him- they defend against the orb that’s exploding and it’s like they’re screaming “It’s the forest! It’s always been the forest!”
And he’s lost. Absolutely, utterly lost. It’s heartbreaking, how distressed he is that his friends are hurting and they won’t let him handle it for them. He’s not even hurt, after all! He hasn’t fainted, he’s still useful! He’s ready! What he’s done so far hasn’t even been too difficult! Why won’t they let go and give it to him?
Everyone is so angry at him, or busy pitying him, that he’s left alone with this. While reading this scene I’m filled with a strong disconnect. He is surrounded by his friends but everyone is far away from him. Their goals have never been farther apart than this moment.
He’s always been one step ahead.
He’s always been ready. He’s always waiting.
And then he stabbed himself in the heart, and everyone but him felt the shift in the stars.
And then the next scenes are his friends trying to wrestle the responsibility out of his white-knuckles hands. They fight for it! Yet all the way until the orb’s time to explode, he holds onto it with an iron grip. I don’t even think he realized they were trying to take it out of his hands.
He kills the White Star, he Embraces the Ancient Powers, and he even manages to Embrace the Sealed God into the book and take over the temple in one move. We get to see everyone’s reactions to his stubbornness too.
So they become twice as stubborn. They cough up blood, they faint, they do 200% of what they’re naturally capable of. Why?
Because they saw Cale do it first. Because they refuse to let him do it again.
And Cale?
He can’t say anything.
Cale is so trustworthy because he’s very good at payment. Exchanging “equal” goods, even if they may not seem equal in his eyes. He sees his own priorities as more important and naturally thinks that he’s ripping off the other person, when actually they are likely benefitting as much or more as Cale himself. Even in something like emotional stability or feelings of safety and security. He doesn’t always give visible benefits, and helping them out is usually not inconvenient for them. In a similar way, his tasks aren’t usually inconvenient, and the benefits he receives are for the future and inconceivable to anyone without context.
He has very low empathy, in that regard. In most regards, actually. He can sacrifice himself, and manipulate people, and use his glib tongue, but his actually empathy is extremely low. Even when everyone is openly concerned for him— he doesn’t recognize it. It’s “weird.” “Disturbing.” He gets put off by people looking at his with admiration, because, he doesn’t feel like he did anything amazing? He just said a few well words? Why is everyone looking at him like he just something profound?
He’s smart, but he can’t easily connect to outsiders feelings. He does and says when he wants to— and predicting the outcome is his specialty— except when it comes to positivity. He prepares for the negative, he anticipates it.
He just… doesn’t understand how to comprehend when it’s not seeing him in a bad light.
Ironic moments in life can make us change our perspectives, laugh, or discover something we didn’t know before. When you’re trying to make them happen in a story, it can be more difficult than you first realized.
Here’s a quick guide to writing irony in your next story so you can think of those moments as a strategic writer.
“What? That’s so ironic.”
We’ve all said a similar line when reacting to something before. Do you remember what it was? Can you point out why it was ironic?
Definition 1: Irony is when something happens or someone says something other than what you expect.
Let’s imagine your protagonist walking outside. They’re in a good mood, but quickly realize it’s pouring rain. They were supposed to go on a walk, but they look up at the clouds and say, “What a beautiful day!”
As a reader, you’d expect that character to be frustrated that the rain ruined their plans to go walking. It’s ironic that they actually find the weather beautiful. It might even make your reader laugh in surprise.
Definition 2: Irony is when something happens or someone says something other than what you expect but in a sardonic way.
This might be the definition of irony that you naturally think of. It’s when something unexpected happens and you have a bitter laugh about it. Deep down, you likely suspected the truth all along. The reveal is negative in nature.
Imagine a politician pushing a bill to outlaw the color blue. They make speeches and go on news networks saying how the color blue is a danger to everyone, so it must be outlawed immediately. While pushing this narrative, a journalist discovers leaked photos of the politician’s interior decorating—their home is entirely blue. Additionally, news comes out that the politician had recently received a significant reelection donation from the We Hate the Color Blue corporation.
The reveal means that the politician didn’t believe what they were saying. They were only passing the law because they received money to do so, even though the color blue wasn’t harming anyone or causing a problem.
If you lived in this world, you’d likely read the headlines and roll your eyes. It’s a frustrating irony that isn’t altogether unexpected, but still a reveal.
There are a few ways to use irony as a plot device. You can use them to reveal things to your characters, change your plot’s direction, or cause character growth. Check out a few examples to see how.
Definition: Something good happens by something bad happening.
A character is in desperate need of a new car. They don’t have the money to buy one and their current vehicle is so old, they won’t get more than a couple hundred dollars to trade it in.
One day while driving it, the car shuts down. The engine melts into the pavement while your character tries scooping it up with an old milkshake cup from their backseat.
Someone records the entire thing from a distance and posts it online. The video goes viral, prompting the milkshake restaurant chain to give the character a brand new car for free.
The loss of their old car and potential public embarrassment is terrible, but your character gets the car they need. Some would say the melting engine was a blessing in disguise. Others would call it irony.
Definition: Someone attends to hurt someone, but the wrong person gets hurt instead.
There are a few ways this irony could play out. Your protagonist could set a bucket of water over a doorframe, hoping it pours onto their little brother when he gets home from school. However, the protagonist gets distracted during the day and walks through the door themselves. They get soaked and become the target of accidental harm.
Their grandfather could come home before their brother too. When the grandfather gets soaked by the bucket prank, they’re the victim of accidental harm. The irony in both situations is that the actual target—the brother—never has the chance to fall for the prank.
Definition: Someone attempts to do something the right way, but it doesn’t work out in their favor.
Your protagonist studies through the night for a high school exam. They pour all of their efforts into staying up and retaining as much information as possible because they realize they need better grades to go to their dream college.
After taking the test and getting it back, your protagonist gets a perfect score. However, the teacher announces they graded everyone on a curve due to an issue with their previous lesson plan. Everyone gets an A and the protagonist gets frustrated because they lost sleep over studying that didn’t ultimately matter.
Definition: Someone does something exclusively for their own benefit and anyone or anything else benefits instead.
A character decides to run in a community race to win the prize money for a vacation. Halfway through the race, they realize they’re out of shape and there’s a shortcut up ahead. They take the shortcut and win, but the judges quickly realize they cheated to reach the finish line.
Their prize money automatically goes to the second runner-up, which happens to be the character’s worst enemy. They watch their worst enemy spend the money on lottery tickets that don’t result in any winnings.
Definition: Someone attempts to hurt another person, but it hurts them instead.
When you picture this irony, imagine Road Runner and Wile E. Coyote. The coyote always wants to capture or hurt Road Runner, but ends up running into his own traps instead.
Sometimes this irony can be a physical harm from a prank gone wrong or it might be an assassination that doesn’t work out. It could also be a character spreading a rumor to hurt another person, but the rumor affects their own reputation instead.
Definition: Someone makes a major sacrifice that ultimately is meaningless.
Characters experiencing this irony give up something they care about and get nothing to show for it. It might be lighter in nature, like a sister giving up her spot as captain of the soccer team so her equally-talented sister can have the role. Ultimately, the coach cuts them both from the team for not jumping at the leadership role fast enough.
It can also carry a heavier theme. A character could sacrifice to keep their loved one from getting hurt, but they die and their loved one gets hurt in the process anyway. There are multiple ways for irony to serve your plot. You just have to give it a purpose in connection with your theme or message.
Definition: Someone looks forward to achieving a rare thing they want very badly, but it goes to the worst person they can think of instead.
Your protagonist’s character works hard to put themselves through school, buy a house, and even start a family. One day, they get a letter that a grandparent they never knew recently passed away and wants to give them a million-dollar inheritance. It would free them of their student loan and mortgage debt, but the cruel parental figure that shares your character’s name gets the money instead.
Definition: Someone finally achieves their long-term goal, but they realize it isn’t what they wanted.
Sometimes the idea of something is better than getting it. Your protagonist may finally move to the mountainside cabin of their dreams, but realize they hate living in an area that gets heavy snow after the first winter storm hits. It’s ironic and a bit depressing, but it shifts your character toward new goals that drive the plot in a fresh direction.
Definition: Someone’s hard work or life’s work gets ruined by a tiny detail they didn’t see coming.
When someone’s ultimate goal gets undone by something minor, it’s devastating. It’s also something readers connect with because it happens in real life.
Your protagonist might work really hard to earn their pilot’s license, only to get up in their first test flight and realize they have an innate fear of heights. Their future career as a flight operator for a private space exploration company depended on getting that license, so they have to rethink everything.
Definition: Someone achieves something at long last, but can’t enjoy it for whatever reason.
Your protagonist decides to become CEO of a major tech company so they can pay off their parent’s debt and provide for them forever. When they finally get that job after a lifetime of earning a college degree and climbing the company’s ladder, their parent doesn’t want their money. Now they’re stuck in a job they might not want for themselves because the purpose behind it will never exist.
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You can write an ironic story with any of these tricks and reach your readers’ hearts. Consider which storytelling tools serve your story’s theme or message to match your plot with the best plot device.
I despise Venion so much omg
//spoilers from chapter 662
ories = single-lifers (Choi family)
Immortals >> frequently called to solve problems in different dimensions because they do not impact other souls. (None in TCF) (PR: So far.)
Variables =
Reincarnators (White Star)
Transmigrators (Kim Rok Soo, Cale Henituse)
Regressors (Cale Henituse)
> Reincarnator: Pushes out the soul that is supposed to take a body and is born with the memories of their past life and the soul that is pushed out is born like a twin in a different dimension. The reason the White Star looks like Kim Rok Soo is because he pushed out Kim Rok Soo who was supposed to be in that body.
> Transmigrator: Pushes out a soul that has been living in a body and forces in a different soul; the soul that is pushed out has no choice but to go into the empty body of the invading soul. Basically, it causes chaos to the soul.
IM GOIN INSANE, PERHAPS WACKY, ONE MIGHT EVEN SAY CRAZY, IM LOSING MY MIND, MY MARBLES, MY BANANAS I AM FALLING OFF MY ROCKER SO TO SPEAK
CALE WAS ORIGINALLY FROM 'BIRTH OF A HERO' WORLD????? AND HE FUCKING TRANSMIGRATTED BACK???????? AND WHITE STAR IS CURRENTLY USING HIS BODY NOW???
Everytime i think i get used to all the bombs the author throws at me, something like this happens