I Don’t Care Who The Top Or Bottom Is In Your Gay Relationship, Who’s Achilles And Who’s Patroclus?

Achilles x Patroclus Explained: for anyone who needs it plainly mapped out for them one more time.

The Iliad:

-Most obviously there is a Special Relationship between Achilles x Patroclus

-Achilles and Patroclus share a Bed & Tent, Patroclus also does all the  “domestic” work for the 2 of them on top of being a soldier

-”But he had Briseis who he was going to marry”, despite only bragged about her because she was a war prize taken by Agamemnon thus taking his honor, he was “locker room talking for the boys” when in reality he had no sexual contact/dimension/relationship with her yet. He also knew the prophecy he wasn’t coming back from Troy so this is one of two reasons we can say that they have no plans together, (see bullet point one for second reason) and then later he wishes Artemis had killed her way back when they were raiding cities. It is also inferable that Patroclus had planted this seed of thought in her mind to put her at ease with Achilles as well as protect his honor because Patroclus is always there for Achilles (Achilles does take Briseis into his bed in Book 24 but again totally as a spoil of war… she is a conquest not a lover)

-Greeks know Achilles will only listen to Patroclus, Especially Nestor who goes to Patroclus to persuade Achilles to re-enter the fight

-When Achilles receives Patroclus’s body his first thought is to end himself with a sword because he does not want to live in a world without Patroclus

-Achilles’s rage at the death of Patroclus and wishing he had let all the Greeks die and they conquered Troy together

-Refusal to eat & sleep while weeping for days on end in bed with Patroclus’s body

-Andromache’s speech about Hector, forsaking all her other loved ones for her husband, aka her one true love and then Achilles giving the almost exact same speech right after about Patroclus his “beloved”

-Achilles kills Hector (Gods even fear his rage and that such emotion could cause war to end before prophesied) aka Achilles could change fate because he so “grieved” for Patroclus - totally homies right?!

-Achilles drags Hectors body from his chariot damaging and defiling the corpse for days; Angering the gods, to which he doesn’t care

-Thetis then comes to Achilles, to which he wants none of her comfort, during their conversation she also has to suggest AND specify for him to now have sex with a woman and maybe find a wife before his life is over (why does she have to specify “woman” & who/what was keeping him from getting a wife)

-Achilles tosses and turns sleeplessly (body of Patroclus is still kept in his bed) and he longs for Patroclus’s “μένος” (menos) which in ancient greek translates to “Might - Manhood - Vigor - Semen” plainly speaking “Spunk” (both kinds!)

-Achilles reaches to embrace the ghost of Patroclus when he appears before him - desiring to physically touch 

-Achilles plays the role of the woman and/or wife of the deceased when they burn Patroclus’s body on the funeral pyre and then collects the ashes himself and puts them in the golden urn. Achilles then charges the men to do the same to him when he dies putting his ashes in the same golden urn and burying them together so that they will physically be together for all eternity - which does happen

-LITERALLY ACHILLES x PATROCLUS

Most Ancient Greeks, Shakespeare, Artists & Intellectuals:

ACTUAL Greek Artwork from 500 BCE (currently resides on display in Germany)

-There is no reference to this moment in any record or story. In this depiction Achilles wraps Patroclus’s arm while he sits between his open legs, and Patroclus lets his dick hang out, while Achilles’s is visible as well, super intimate for “bros”

-Later greeks assumed or imagined their relationship as Pederastic (An older “erastes” lover & an “eromenos” younger beloved) because that was the norm of that period but no one could definitely decide who was the top and who was the bottom 

**SIDE NOTE They do not have an age gap to support the Pederastic Theory AND after the pederastic relationship ended the men involved married women which we know neither Achilles nor Patroclus had nor plans to do

-Plato totally thought Achilles was a Bottom in his “Symposium” 

-Aeschylus (the literal inventor of Greek Tragedy) portrayed Achilles & Patroclus as lovers in his lost play “The Myrmidons” which was based on The Iliad. Surviving lines from the play are of Achilles speaking of “Patroclus’s Reverent Company, his thighs, and being ungrateful for many kisses”

-345 BCE = Athenian politician, Aeschines states in a speech during his trial that Homer didn’t have to say what they were because 1. the Greeks were more sexually fluid then 2. there wasn’t a word for “Homosexual” 3. Homer was a storyteller and ANY educated man knew what they were, like its THAT obvious

-Alexander the Great and his lover Haphaestion (this is a whole other can of worms still being fought) liked to think of themselves, and referred to each other as “Achilles & Patroclus”

-Shakespeare features the two in his play “Troilus and Cressida” in which Patroclus is called “Achilles’s Brach” aka “Achilles’s Bitch”

-Renaissance Artists & those onward armed with their skill, knowledge, and obsession with all things ancient painted numerous depictions of the two, usually scenes of Achilles receiving Patroclus’s body, and for “buddies” they sure love painting them showing A LOT of skin

-By roughly the 1960′s & 70′s historians and scholars started talking about them openly again with the

“ARE WE READY TO STOP PLAYIN’ AND OPENLY ACKNOWLEDGE THEM AS ‘YOU KNOW’”

  All joking aside we still have a select number of Historians, Scholars, and Hollywood still holding out:

-What about Briseis!? (see above) they both also do sleep with a woman each but sadly here they are seen more as conquest and war prizes than actual lovers - again there is a fluidity

-Achilles was a HERO! Best of the Greeks -He’s always shown as A MAN’S MAN! YET in a separate myth (see Achilleid) his mother Thetis was able to hide him among a group of girly girls on Skyros to which he was perfectly disguised and has a one night stand with the princess again showing their regard for sexual fluidity. ALSO Do not disrespect that he was a manly hero and a femboy! This also explains how his son comes to be - again this is a completely separate myth and origin

-Could they be cousins!? (NO)

-**Closing Eyes** Homo-erotic? WHERE? “Item Not Found”

-”Well all we can say, there is no source, Homer never explicitly stated that Achilles and Patroclus were a couple or had a sexual relationship that we can find in the source material so… I am choosing to ignore all context and blatant evidence, as well have no heterosexual explanation for them either…  you’re just reading into it too much”:

EVERYONE who has a brain and has read The Iliad:

As for myself having read the Iliad, studied this Art, History, and Culture, as well as having a BFA; when you know, YOU KNOW. Feel free to share, use this as inspiration to read “The Iliad” if you haven’t already, think critically, and study up on your own!

IN CONCLUSION = THEY GAY & THE OTP !!

(Highly Suggest “The Song of Achilles” as well)

This is really specific but the guy who voiced Floch in the Attack On Titan dub should be the dub voice actor for Johnny Joestar whenever part7 gets animated. He just really sounds like how I think Johnny would sound, and he has the slightest “gay” lisp, which would make him sound more youthful, naive, etc. or whatever to the dudebros, but then give us lgbtq+ fans the bi/pan Johnny we deserve.

they cut this scene from the pilot because it was too gay!!!!!! too explicit!!!!! stop looking at each other like that!! stop playing soft and heartfelt music!!!!

The Original Take - Ep 27 | Zhou Zishu laid on Wen Kexing’s shoulder for the initial shot, this was the take that Zhang Zhehan said was too gay and they had to tone it down despite him thinking it was a really good one

We also didn’t have that lone tear dropping from Wen Kexing’s eye in the final cut

Or that little smile at the end at the thought of Zhou Zishu willing to die with him right now

blessed be the shit that goes down

blessed to see everyday regardless how shit goes down

Why is the song “Me and my Husband” by Mitski literally Casca…

Anyone who knows how to edit, y’all are welcome for this idea

This is the second of the two things I didn’t necessarily like in Song of Achilles. With how Ancient Greece was, Achilles and Patroclus wouldn’t have been or had their reputation tarnished for being gay. Being gay WAS THE NORM. Because, to Ancient Greece, what was manlier than two men?

So, I don’t like how she put a more modern twist on it. I understand why, us gays don’t yet know what it is like to live with our partners without (for example) weird glances from onlookers. And it makes it more relatable. But, I wish I would’ve been able to project that hope onto this book. It’s similar to how The Song of Ice and Fire shows brutality towards women in a MADE UP WORLD. Like for once I want my fantasy, my books to show what the world could be.

Anyways, I’m just sad because sometimes I don’t like the modern lens of classical books and myths because it takes away some fire shit.

Me trying to read all three of the MXTX novels simultaneously: